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can someone give me an estimate of the mileage for this hike starting at gateway center:

gateway loop, bell pass trail, windmill, east end, tom's thumb, windgate, gateway loop

i don't have the right set of maps at my fingertips
if anyone can point me to a triplog of this hike or a gps route, i'd appreciate it
have looked, but don't see this exact combination
i've done the windgate-bell loop and the tom's thumb-windgate loop from the north side, so i'm familiar with the trails
thinking it would be best to go counter-clockwise as i prefer to ascend steep and descend moderate trails
thanks in advance for any feedback
also thinking a sunrise start time would be in order

neilends wrote:I literally LOLd at the deer story there.

I'm somehow still 20/20 but the rattler issue may be a good reason not to night hike in the mornings. When's rattler season anyway, if there is such a thing?

The rule of thumb is if you are wearing shorts and a t-shirt and you are comfortable, not hot, not cold, then it's rattler season. They are reptiles, and they can't move at all when it's cold. They also don't like excessive heat. In winter, if the overnight temperatures are below about 60 degrees then the rattlers probably don't come out during the day, either. In the summer they don't like the heat of the sun, but they can be out at night when temps are in the 80's. Also, they really like water. There can be more of them near creeks, ponds, etc.

That being said, one of my friends lives in Dome Valley near Yuma on the hillside (not near the irrigated fields) which is extremely dry. She sees them all the time, when temperatures are conducive.

I am not overly concerned about rattlesnakes. HAZers have hiked how many hundreds of thousands of miles without getting bit? ;)

I've not seen too many snakes on the trails, but I'm pretty sure they've seen me...

I had a hiking acquaintance in Tucson who was bitten by a Mojave on the Finger Rock Trail. For some reason it took hours for the helicopter to reach her. I asked her why she didn't start walking out. She said she was not able to walk at all within just a few minutes, and in fact was kind of "out of it" mentally as well.

She didn't see the snake, it got her from underneath a bush. She later did hike that same trail many times. She is (or was--she's quite elderly now) a real hiker.

HAZ threads have a trend to wonder don’t they. This one to headlamps, to night vision, to sighting deer at night, to rattle snakes, to rattle snake seasons, to getting a bear out of a garage and finally to no HAZ’ers ever being bit! And there will probably be another subject brought up before I finish this post.

By the way statistics are that you will have a dead battery in your HAZ ride 7.5 times before you are ever bit by a rattle snake.

SuperstitionGuy wrote:you will have a dead battery in your HAZ ride 7.5 times

Not if you use a battery certified for... Oh, never mind...

Now what about that McDowell Mileage Estimate??

johnlp wrote:HAZers have hiked how many hundreds of thousands of miles without getting bit?

Watch out for my friend Karma...... or......Sounds like a challenge.

I don't like headlamps prefer a flashlight instead... I seem to lose depth of field in headlamps you don't get the correct shadows for the heigh of objects or the depth of holes... but most of the time without anything just flashlight in hand just incase...

Doesn't anybody use night vision or infrared anymore?

Widowmaker wrote:Doesn't anybody use night vision or infrared anymore?

The problem with night vision and IR is that you actually see things. With a headlamp, you only have to look at the trail in front of you and don't have to be bothered with a better view of all the scary monsters waiting to pounce.

big_load wrote:

Widowmaker wrote:Doesn't anybody use night vision or infrared anymore?

The problem with night vision and IR is that you actually see things. With a headlamp, you only have to look at the trail in front of you and don't have to be bothered with a better view of all the scary monsters waiting to pounce.

Especially in Scottsdale, I've heard they have cougars out there.

@neilends If it's a full moon - nah, I don't bother. My family and I have done dozens of full-moon hikes. Try it!