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Well, you can say you heard it on HAZ first, at least most of you. My inside track to the Park tells me that wag bags for backpackers will be required in Grand Canyon, starting in January 2011. [Amend to 2012].

But not poop tubes. Sorry about that, Joe. I know you were really, really looking forward to using a poop tube, but it is to be wag bags, from what I hear.

I don't know if the BCO will issue them or not. In the Sierras, only certain areas such as the main Mt. Whitney trail, require them, and you can get them at the ranger station in Lone Pine. I have used one, it was not too terrible. But it was only for one night out of a 6-night backpack that I was required to use one. I am not sure how I would have liked to carry them for all 6 nights. Well, I am sure--I would not have liked it!

And now that I have started this thread, you can call me a wag or you can call me a bag, but please do not call me a wag bag!

Wondered last night about this well-intended governmental policy and what comment a few folks might make. Folks like Mark Twain or present-day Garrison Keillor and his radio skits...but I think we were best led through this episode by Elizabeth.

Truckers have trucker bombs, hikers can have hiker bombs.

rdavisiii wrote:Truckers have trucker bombs, hikers can have hiker bombs.

I had to look that one up--some very funny definitions here: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.p ... ker%20bomb

azbackpackr wrote:I had to look that one up--some very funny definitions here: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.p ... ker%20bomb

thank you for this educational experience!

We aim to please!

We aim other stuff, too.

There could be some unexpected benefits of this kind of rule, however... For example, there are a great many people who would not go backpacking in the GC if it meant they had to doodie in a bag and carry the pumpkin thing out. Second, it would reduce the amount of hazardous waste in some of the more popular backcountry camps sans composting toilets (Granite Beach for example). Thirdly, nothing is going to get all the tourons on the corridor trail out of your way quite like 3 or 4 of those bags swinging precariously off the back of your pack...

writelots wrote: Thirdly, nothing is going to get all the tourons on the corridor trail out of your way quite like 3 or 4 of those bags swinging precariously off the back of your pack...

Yeah. Hmmm.... the bags should all be of one easily recognizable bright color, such as ultra-neon-pink. If a tourist is hiking up when you are hiking down, and you happen to have a full one with you, you could always politely ask them to take it to the rim and throw it away for you. It could become part of the etiquette of Canyon hiking. "Oh, hey, you're hiking out today, right? Ok, here are my wag bags for you to carry out!"

Which brings up something else. So, now we are asking the garbage collectors of the Grand Canyon to be handling these biohazard bags? They will have to have Hep B vaccinations, etc., just to be garbage men. The Greater Grand Canyon Garbage Gathering Assn. might go on strike when they become aware what they are being asked to do.

Suddenly the breakfast burrito I'm eating has become unappetizing....

What constitutes more of an unpleasant experience in the canyon? Backpackers or mule piss and poop on the trail.

Isn't it a disingenuous policy on the part of the NPS if they don't similarly require the mule runners to do the same?

It works well for rafters, since we can haul our own ...er...stuff. Backpacking would be somewhat less pleasant, but I guess it is no more of a burden than cavers place on themselves. The listed downsides that others have brought up are pretty important considerations. I can see both sides of this issue.

Back to being serious. The busy areas all seem to have commodes. Why not install a few more commodes? For example, South Bass has no commodes, New Hance has none, and I suspect neither does the Boucher (I am hiking it in about 4 weeks--haven't seen it yet.) These are well-established trails that receive a lot less traffic, but could conceivably have commodes installed. The primitive off-trail routes receive little traffic, so why have that requirement for primitive areas?

I am not too keen on the commodes, but would prefer them to the wag bag alternative. I guess they are expensive to maintain, though, whereas with the wag bags they are asking each of us to be responsible for our own...

big_load wrote:Maybe I should start practicing now.

The ones that we were issued this year in Zion had a red bullseye in the center of the 'target area'. Too funny.

Bags with Targets on them!? This thread is causing my thoughts to SCAT-ter ! Too many possible responses...

...and contributions from members with nicks like big_load isn't helping !

hikeaz wrote:The ones that we were issued this year in Zion had a red bullseye in the center of the 'target area'.

My eyes are in the wrong place for that to help very much.

PLC92084 wrote:and contributions from members with nicks like big_load isn't helping !

As PageRob pointed out cavers have been doing this for a while. Lots of fun hauling up a back pack full of stuff on a 4-500 foot multi stage asecension. Cavers call them burritos. Those that have their burritos escape endure endless embarrassment and razzing, not to mention the grossness of cleaning it up. Yes, I have done so and it's not very exciting, and once you get used to it you forget about it as long as your system is secure.

RedRoxx44 wrote:Those that have their burritos escape endure endless embarrassment and razzing, not to mention the grossness of cleaning it up.

That's why the poop tube seems like a good idea to me, if only to isolate the payload from the pressure.

RedRoxx44 wrote:As PageRob pointed out cavers have been doing this for a while. Lots of fun hauling up a back pack full of stuff on a 4-500 foot multi stage asecension. Cavers call them burritos. Those that have their burritos escape endure endless embarrassment and razzing, not to mention the grossness of cleaning it up. Yes, I have done so and it's not very exciting, and once you get used to it you forget about it as long as your system is secure.

Alston Neal wrote:Suddenly the breakfast burrito I'm eating has become unappetizing....

Just sayin'

On Mt. Hood they are called Blue Bags. They are a thick blue bag w/ twist tie and clear heavy duty outer bag. There not that bad. They have required them for years. Maybe if they started before it became the second most summited Mtn. In the world there would not be a problem with giardia in the Government Camp water supply. :whistle:

bart01 wrote:On Mt. Hood they are called Blue Bags. They are a thick blue bag w/ twist tie and clear heavy duty outer bag. There not that bad. They have required them for years. Maybe if they started before it became the second most summited Mtn. In the world there would not be a problem with giardia in the Government Camp water supply. :whistle:

Totally a different ball game on Mt. Hood. That is how this whole thing got started, with the Park Service comparing out-and-back, up-and-down hikes on Mt. Hood and Mt. Whitney to hiking the Grand Canyon. In Grand Canyon, most primitive off-trail routes see little traffic, and the people using them are out there for 7 to 10 days. It simply is not practical, nor is it going to be enforceable. Poop is heavier than freeze-dried food, and no one wants his pack heavier hiking UP than it was a few days earlier when he was hiking DOWN. Most people expect the pack to get lighter after 3 or 4 days, not heavier.

I still say, add more commodes on those trails which don't have them, which on the South Rim are Boucher, New Hance and South Bass. Tanner has one. Hermit has one. Monument has one. Grandview/Horseshoe Mesa has one. (It goes without saying that the friggin' overused Corridor Trails have a lot of them.) So, you have to add two or three more? Yes, I know BCO budget has been cut a lot lately. Imagine how much of your budget money you are going to spend cleaning plastic out of those composting toilets...

If you don't do this, some of the backpackers are going to throw the bags into the first commode they come across, and eventually ruin ALL the commodes. This is going to happen, hands down, because NO ONE WANTS THEIR PACK HEAVIER THAN IT STARTED OUT TO BE WHEN THEY ARE FACED WITH HIKING OUT OF THE CANYON. Most people will follow the rules, they will grumble and deal with it. And, also, a lot of people may take the required bags and not use them at all. But there are so many backpackers in the Canyon, and you KNOW as well as I do that you are not going to keep some of the people from throwing their bags into the commodes. It is VERY EXPENSIVE TO CLEAN OUT IMPROPER USAGE OF THESE COMMODES. So, BCO people, there goes your budget for the year... You have been listening to these Mt. Hood types, and you are forgetting that the Canyon is different.