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I got my permit for 2 nites in the canyon at the end of april. This will be my first time hiking in the canyon. I plan on heading down the south kibab trail and staying 2 nites at bright angel camp and coming out the BR trail. What trails in the east valley/ superstions are good for training with a full pack? Is there anything close to what the canyon trails are like.
Also besides ribbon falls what other trails are good hikes from BR camp?

nonot wrote:Bah, carry your water with you. Caching becomes donating once you cannot find it or if the wrong person comes along and steals it. Plus, who wants to come up the same way you go down?

As far as bottles go: slosh slosh slosh slosh slosh...pause...slosh slosh slosh. But really, if this is the only backpacking trip you plan to do, bottles will work just fine. I assume you have a Camelbak or something similar already?

I want to do more backpacking in the future. I have 2 70 oz bladers. I guess I could use them and carry 1 bottle. I need to pack up my pack and see how they fit.

IMO, 2-liter Coke bottles are the way to go. They're cheap, durable and, at 1.6 ounces, are one of the lightest containers (per liter) for carrying water. On one Grand Canyon backpack I did, I started with 11 liters of water; a 3-liter bladder and four 2-liter Coke bottles. Since I don't drink much soda, I've used the same bottles over and over. They're still holding up. I don't have any problems with sloshing around but your experience may depend on the type of pack used and packing methods.

If you do stash water in the Canyon, make certain it is covered with rocks or the ravens will peck holes in it! Been there, done that!

Al_HikesAZ wrote:There is almost always water at Indian Gardens and almost always water at the 3 mile and 1 1/2 mile resthouses. I would probably start with 1L in the bladder and 1L bottle. Drink and refill the bottle at Indian Garden and drink and refill at the resthouses as needed.

The two rest houses 1 1/2 mile and 3 mile house water is turned off in winter... I have seen it turned off until May 1st. Also double check with ranger station when get there because the pipelines break once in awhile....

During summer months there is potable drinking water at Bright Angel Campground, Indian Garden Campground, Three-Mile Resthouse, and Mile-and-a-Half Resthouse. From mid-October to early May, water is only available at Bright Angel Campground and Indian Garden. There is never potable water available at the River Resthouse. Please note that, due to occasional pipeline breaks, potable water is not guaranteed: bringing an alternative form of water treatment, such as iodine tablets or a water filter, is essential.

Dave1 wrote:don't have any problems with sloshing around but your experience may depend on the type of pack used and packing methods

I got a Hi-tec Odyssey 50 pack. I used it once on a overniter in the Sups it fits me very well. It was 40 lbs packed then. I want to be 30 or less for this trip.

Dschur wrote:The two rest houses 1 1/2 mile and 3 mile house water is turned off in winter... I have seen it turned off until May 1st. Also double check with ranger station when get there because the pipelines break once in awhile....

If the water is not on at BA camp or the rest houses that going to change every thing. I should get a filter system before I go. They are alot of them on the market any recomendations? What about using pills or drops?

Having done this route as a part of several trips in the last few years, my best advice is...
Start your hike out as early in the day as you can stand to get up. The first part of the climb from Bright Angel is directly in the open on loose sand - not a nice place to be after the sun rises.

The water is on at Bright Angel and Indian Garden year round, so that shouldn't be a big issue if you plan ahead. Just check if the water is on at 3-mi and 1.5-mi before you start, so you won't end up sol.

Yo KrispyKritter: The Park Service has a 'Backcountry Update' that you can either log-on to or subscribe to as a 'Feed' that contains the latest trail information. This would include updates on the water availability along the Bright Angel. I've only used my water filtration once on the BA---the pipeline went down and there was no water at the 1.5 mile house----the pipeline was leaking behind the rest house and I pumped from the large puddle.

http://www.nps.gov/grca/planyourvisit/u ... ountry.xml

Dave1 wrote:IMO, 2-liter Coke bottles are the way to go. They're cheap, durable and, at 1.6 ounces, are one of the lightest containers (per liter) for carrying water. On one Grand Canyon backpack I did, I started with 11 liters of water; a 3-liter bladder and four 2-liter Coke bottles. Since I don't drink much soda, I've used the same bottles over and over. They're still holding up. I don't have any problems with sloshing around but your experience may depend on the type of pack used and packing methods.

They only will slosh if they are partially full. Dave's method will likely work well because I imagine he dumps an entire 2 liter into his camelback at a time. A benefit of bladders is that they don't take up room like bottles except when they're full and are a bit more flexible to arrange in your pack. But for the price, you can't beat a couple of 2 liter bottles, durability is pretty good too.

On the BA and NK corridor trails there is water about every 5 miles. So you don't need to take very much unless your trip will take you elsewhere.

krispykritter wrote:If the water is not on at BA camp or the rest houses that going to change every thing. I should get a filter system before I go. They are alot of them on the market any recomendations? What about using pills or drops?

All the methods are on the market because, to a point, they all work well.

The two most popular water filters I encounter are the MSR miniworks (which I own) and the Katadyn (Hiker, Hiker Pro). The Katadyn is much faster at pumping, but isn't field cleanable and has larger pore sizes.

There are gravity based filters that are becoming popular - no pumping needed, just find a tree.

Some people use iodine, others use chlorine dioxide (a couple of brand names). It is the lightest option, but won't keep out floaters. Also, chemical treatments generally take 4 hours to be effective before you should drink it. Iodine leaves a taste, other methods do not.

Purifiers generally combine the two - mechanical filtration to remove bacteria (and floaters) and chemical treatment to kill viruses. Seldom needed in the US, but AZ has some exceptions that are worth consideration.

Each have advantages and disadvantages. Often the type of filter someone chooses is related to the type of backpacking they like to do:
lightweight, thru-hikers - chemical
overnighters - non-field cleanable mechanical
long duration backpackers - field cleanable mechanical
prepared for everything and non-domestic trips: purifing

It's kind of a generalization and some people fit into more than one category, but since you're new it gives you a starting point to consider.

Canyonram wrote:Yo KrispyKritter: The Park Service has a 'Backcountry Update' that you can either log-on to or subscribe to as a 'Feed' that contains the latest trail information. This would include updates on the water availability along the Bright Angel.

http://www.nps.gov/grca/planyourvisit/u ... ountry.xml

Thanks, thats a good page to have in my favorites.

nonot wrote:

krispykritter wrote:If the water is not on at BA camp or the rest houses that going to change every thing. I should get a filter system before I go. They are alot of them on the market any recomendations? What about using pills or drops?

All the methods are on the market because, to a point, they all work well.

The two most popular water filters I encounter are the MSR miniworks (which I own) and the Katadyn (Hiker, Hiker Pro). The Katadyn is much faster at pumping, but isn't field cleanable and has larger pore sizes.

There are gravity based filters that are becoming popular - no pumping needed, just find a tree.

Some people use iodine, others use chlorine dioxide (a couple of brand names). It is the lightest option, but won't keep out floaters. Also, chemical treatments generally take 4 hours to be effective before you should drink it. Iodine leaves a taste, other methods do not.

Purifiers generally combine the two - mechanical filtration to remove bacteria (and floaters) and chemical treatment to kill viruses. Seldom needed in the US, but AZ has some exceptions that are worth consideration.

Each have advantages and disadvantages. Often the type of filter someone chooses is related to the type of backpacking they like to do:
lightweight, thru-hikers - chemical
overnighters - non-field cleanable mechanical
long duration backpackers - field cleanable mechanical
prepared for everything and non-domestic trips: purifing

It's kind of a generalization and some people fit into more than one category, but since you're new it gives you a starting point to consider.

For the amount of backpacking I do now I decided (after much research) to go with Micropur pills from Katadyn. I dont want to spend a bunch of money on a filter and never use it. I'll plan on haveing a few pieces of coffie filter with me to put over the mouth of the bottle to filter out the big stuff and then use the pill. Plus most other peaple I know have filters so I can just use theres

I've been happy with a Steri-pen for dayhikes and as a backup on backpacking trips. Uses UV light to kill. Cleans a liter in 90 seconds. The pills take more patience than I have sometimes. I filter through a bandana. And I don't mind chewy water or pollywog water as long as it's clean of nasties. Just hold your nose and don't breath when you drink pollywog water.

If you live close enough to the Grand Canyon (I don't know what santan valley is), best bet is to head there for your last few training hikes. Last year, we hiked down and up Hermit Trail as our last hard training hike for a r2r2r, and it really paid off - the corridor trails seemed positively easy. We built up to it by hiking everything we could find in the local area with elevation gain. Gradually adding pack weight over the weeks, as others have suggested.

Al_HikesAZ wrote:I've been happy with a Steri-pen for dayhikes and as a backup on backpacking trips. Uses UV light to kill. Cleans a liter in 90 seconds. The pills take more patience than I have sometimes. I filter through a bandana. And I don't mind chewy water or pollywog water as long as it's clean of nasties. Just hold your nose and don't breath when you drink pollywog water.

Protein! ;)

I have a Hi tec odessy 50 pack, I know its not the best but I like it. So, today I went out today and hiked 4 miles with it to get use to it. I put 2 gallon jugs of water and my 70 oz hydration bladder in it for weight. It weighed 23lbs. I tightend up the belt then adjusted the shoulder straps. All of the weight was on my hips and it felt good. I noticed the the shoulder strap were pulling back in the front, is this because I had all the weight in the bottom of the pack. How do you destibute the weight in your pack? I know my sleeping bag goes in the bottom. Should I put the bulk of the weight in the middle of my pack?
I should be able to keep my pack weight around 30lbs, after todays hike I fell like BA trail is going to hurt . I think I'am going to hike with my pack full on every hike until april.

Generally the densest, heaviest stuff goes closest to your body (closest to your back) lighter stuff further away. Water is generally the item here. If you can get the bladders close to your back (this is where most packs have "hydration" pockets.

It's all about torque. Some say it should go more towards the top, others more towards the bottom. I don't notice the difference.

You may have to lean forward a bit, or use your core muscles, or both to counteract the torque.

Or it could be that with only water in your pack, things aren't packed very tightly and are moving around, causing to pack to flop with each step.
If this is the case, you can just stuff something light but with lots of volume in to keep the water from flopping around.

autumnstars wrote:Or it could be that with only water in your pack, things aren't packed very tightly and are moving around, causing to pack to flop with each step.
If this is the case, you can just stuff something light but with lots of volume in to keep the water from flopping around.

Good point - a pillow or two will fill out the pack for training.

Yo KrispyKritter: I just got a review copy of "One Best Hike: Grand Canyon" by Elizabeth Wenk and published by Wilderness Press (2010) that contains a description of the route you plan to take. Might be worth a look at the bookstore---$14.95

If you want to go the 'freebie' route there are numerous trail descriptions on the Net:

http://www.gorp.com/parks-guide/grand-c ... 47138.html
http://www.gorp.com/parks-guide/travel- ... 58980.html

The Park Service has some handouts on each trail. Lots of goodies at this location:
http://www.nps.gov/grca/planyourvisit/c ... mation.htm

The Grand Canyon Association Video is here (or on Youtube)---see if you can spot one of the members of the forum:
http://www.nps.gov/grca/photosmultimedi ... eocast.htm

You can also simply do a search on 'Trail Descriptions Grand Canyon"

Since you are planning several days, you must train to be away from the comforts of home for several days. One mistake made in training is that people go on a single long dayhike with their weight, gear, boots, etc and then get back home and rest up before hitting the practice hikes again. They do the necessary physical exertion but then return to all the creature comforts after the exercise. They squeeze a recovery day (or two or three) in after the training hike. This is contrary to what you will have to do with a multiple day trip in the Canyon. You will need to be ready to hike for several hours, sleep on the ground, eat the food that your are going to eat, go to sleep and wake up according to 'Canyon' time, and then hike the next day. This means you need to stay aerobic on your practice hikes----if you go all out and anaerobic, you will build up lactic acid in the muscles and, since you need to get up and go the next morning, your muscles will not have recovered and you end up doing the 'Kaibab shuffle' to get back to the rim. In your practice hikes, take it slow (about 50-to-60% of what you could do if you pressed yourself), rest often and get the legs up in the air to circulate the blood, do not create lactic acid in the muscles. You will know you are training correctly when you finish your dayhike and can go about your normal business without collapsing on the couch after a hot shower and supper. You should be able to walk to the ice cream stand at the Bright Angel with no more agony than you would if you were on a causal rim walk.

If you are not used to sleeping on the ground, you will need to practice this as well. Do your practice dayhike, come home---eat the same food that you plan to take on your hike, take a cold shower if you plan on taking a dip in the creek---then hit the sleeping bag on the floor. Train yourself to the same time frame that you will be under at the Canyon. One of the most common reasons people get turned-off to backpacking is they just can't get a good-night sleep when outside. Watch how many people are up and packing at 4 am---it's not because they are gung-ho to hit the trail, they couldn't get any sound sleep. They were in a fitful sleep, tossing and turning, anxious to get up and out of the sack and finish the durn hike. It is the combination of soreness, your stinky self, the different sensory input, and trying to fall asleep in a strange environment. For years I traveled for business and had a terrible time sleeping in a motel room (until I packed my own blanket and pillow---my teddy bear was too ragged, having lost an eye, to make the frequent flier miles). Get used to sleeping while grungy in your sleeping bag---your brain will not then be kept awake by all the strange siganls as to how you are sleeping---the brain registers the soreness and the strange environment as Danger! and will keep you awake. If your wife is a tolerant woman, pitch the tent and crawl inside so you get used to the smell, feel, sound, of sleeping in the tent.

Retrain your circadian rhythms to match the hike. If you plan to go to sleep at sunset, do this at home. If you need to wake yourself up earlier than normal, practice with your fluid intake before going to sleep. It may take a little testing, but you will soon arrive at an amount that will wake you up to urinate. If you pee the bed, well, you didn't practice enough. And keep your paws off my dry sleeping bag. The older I get, the less sleep I need. I'm the guy up at night with a flashlight searching for rattlesnakes, fiddling with his gear by moonlight, and the first guy up in the morning clanging my stove to make coffee---in other words, avoid sleeping next to me or a group of ringtail cats.

Since you will be sleeping in designated campgrounds, try to select a site that is far enough away from the banging doors of the restrooms. Avoid setting up near a group site---a passle of giggling boyscouts will keep you up all night. Keep a piss bottle handy to avoid stumbling around at night for the restrooms. Keep it separate from your bottle of Gatorade. Phantom Ranch has 100's of bark scorpions out at night so take care where you stash your boots and your gear. I've seen more rattlesnakes at Indian Gardens---there seems to be more deer mice up there feeding on hiker crumbs. Ringtails are more numerous at Phantom and will help themselves to your munchies. Both locations have metal ammo tins to hide your food (the Park Service was looking to remove these from the more remote trails---too many people were using them as trash cans to avoid carrying their stuff out of the Canyon. Not sure if they have done this in the other Corridor campgrounds).

Avoid the 'lunge' step on the way down, an exaggerated 'keep on truckin'' step that stretches the hamstrings and can rub blisters into your heels and slam you toes. On the hike up, slow even steps, use your hiking poles. Keep your heartrate under control and stay aerobic. Practice the 'Mountaineer Rest step' for the step sections of trail:
http://www.scoutingmagazine.org/issues/0410/d-outs.html

Your first time hike should be your inspiration to come back for many more hikes and Canyon adventures. Take that digital camera and document the adventure. I envy you your first time hike at the Canyon!!!!