HikeArizona.COM

Hello,

My first post. Really enjoying the hiking. Made it up to the flatiron with my wife recently and I was kind of miffed by the new bus stop style benches placed in the wilderness by scouts apparently. They totally kill the landscape since they are bright aluminum, I suspect they will be just magnets for graffiti. I wanted to get others take on them, and frankly see if others agree they should be removed. If so i would like to start getting people to contact the park and let them know they don't belong in there. whats next a starbucks on the flatiron?

Thanks
Brett

Wendi and I hike Flatiron annually, so it was with great anticipation to finally get to see the benches. The pics I had seen were of plain unpainted benches so I was ready to be one of the Nay-Sayers. But at present the benches have been spray painted to blend in better so I am indifferent. Though I would like to add that the paint is obviously not rated for outdoors and/no primer was used so the paint is already flaking and not very evenly applied. From my perspective I see a lot of families doing this high traffic hike with multiple generations. The older generation often hang behind while the rest do their thing, I know this cause mother-in-law will often do just that, not that I would ever consider taking anywhere near this hike but to each his own. I did have a slow motion "Nooo!" moment when I saw Wendi deciding to sit down one...Then I looked around to make sure I didn't see any HAZ Tees anywhere and had a seat.
On a side note I recently saw footage of a municipal escalator installed in a very hilly run-down section in Columbia, so poor people didn't have to walk up and down a hill. Poor People! And we don't even have one going up pumpkin Flatiron!

I think that benches are not terribly attractive on a trail - however! However I was hiking one time with my good friends and their mother at Piestewa Peak. Their mother had just finished chemo recently, and she used every rock, boulder, and bench available to her. She was pumpkin glad they were there, and they allowed her to continue to be able to hike. She finished the hike, not in record time, but she was very proud of this. I am not certain how easy it would have been for her if the benches weren't there.

If they did it right, they would lay a few miles of pipe and put a water fountain next to every bench. That way more people could hike further and not worry about carrying water. Maybe as a next step they could build shade structures over the benches. It's hot out there.

chumley wrote:If they did it right, they would lay a few miles of pipe and put a water fountain next to every bench. That way more people could hike further and not worry about carrying water. Maybe as a next step they could build shade structures over the benches. It's hot out there.

Plus an underground electrical line so they can charge their cell phones bench side. After all they will all want to call their friends and grandchildren to tell them where they are and how beautful the city below them is. :-({|=

And I read somewhere that these benches affect bear migration across the desert.... :sorrry:

Maybe they should put padded covers on the seats, that way people hiking nude sit down to rest, won't burn their butts on the hot benches.

@kevinweitzel75
They could be air-conditioned so the danger of butt-burns would be greatly reduced... :STP:

WiFi would be good too...

Benches first, road now, paved next

The land is a legacy brand and we are the care takers, these metal benches go against the entire leave no trace ethic! The point is that no one stepped up when they installed the benches now they feel free to do whatever, which according to the ranger is hacking the trail up and building a road.

I have yet to hike in the Supes, so I don't share the same opinion with the others who have made it their second home. Though I want to go the non-traditional route, I imagine my first trip will be up Flatiron. I'm certain 99% of my thoughts on that trip will be about how beautiful and challenging the area is. The other 1% will be of this thread during the 10 seconds the bench is in view as I walk passed it - Excuse me and my big head, I of course meant the 5 minutes as I crawl passed it.

I understand why it's annoying, but I don't see why it should ruin your day.

LDSP is state owned land, they can develop that area how much or how little those in charge see fit. Most state parks have quite a bit of infrastructure put in place to easily access the area. Picacho Peak has cables anchored into the rock in certain sections and a walkway so people can get to the top. If you're in an AZ state park, seeing this infrastructure in place should be expected because it is nothing new.

they can't develop anything past the border of the Supes WA, which is federal land and has the usual restrictions for WAs. So the concern that there will be a paved road to the top is completely unfounded.

Just avoid the irritant and hike somewhere else if the benches offend you so much.......there's tons of hikes and trails where you don't have to see the benches or even put up with people!

However, one of these would certainly be inviting for the trip down from the Flatiron....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kjw5GhyZUu0

It'd be a lot more fun if there wasn't some kid in front of me riding the brakes the whole way down.

chumley wrote:riding the brakes

I don't think that thing has brakes, I think it's more from the fact that an adult would more potential energy and therefore would tend to go faster than a smaller child

Did you look at the other ones on there? There are a bunch of them in Europe! Why don't we have those in Colorado or at Sunrise, etc?

I've never seen the one on rails, but there are alpine slides at a variety of North American resorts. They more resemble a bobsled track and you sit on a little wheeled sled. Alpine slide sleds definitely have brakes though. I'd be surprised if the alpine rail (or whatever they call the thing in the video) doesn't also allow the rider to control individual speed.

Alpine slides are really fun. There's no way that the WMAT could get enough people out there to justify the cost of operating it, but Snowbowl could probably add it to their summer skyride for an extra few $. I think part of the problem may be the cost of liability insurance. Falling off the sled on an alpine slide results in some epic raw-skin injuries. Was probably a lot more fun in the days before rampant litigation.

azbackpackr wrote:Why don't we have those in Colorado or at Sunrise, etc?

I don't know about Sunrise, but I'm pretty sure they still have them in Colorado. I rode one 20 years ago just outside Denver.
They have one at Lutsen Ski Resort in northern MN along the North Shore of Lake Superior as a way of generating business in the ski "off-season".

hippiepunkpirate wrote:I don't think that thing has brakes, I think it's more from the fact that an adult would more potential energy and therefore would tend to go faster than a smaller child

They definitely do have brakes. For a visual, check out early in the video all of a sudden the kid shoots out another 25 feet ahead too quickly for it to simply be gravity.

chumley wrote:Falling off the sled on an alpine slide results in some epic raw-skin injuries.

I know that from personal experience... over 25 years ago I was racing my youngest son down an Alpine Slide (there were two tracks side-by-side) and of course he jumped the gun and had a head start so I gave it all I had to close in on him. I caught and passed him at the fastest part when the sled flipped out from under me on a corner... talking to the workers later, between my closing speed on my son (who, like his dad, wasn't one for going slow) and the speeds that had been tested safely, they estimated I was doing over 80 mph at that point. I slid for nearly a hundred feet before I could throw myself over the concrete curbing only to tumble in the dirt until coming to a stop. I knew the dirt wouldn't be a good thing for the massive road rash but if I kept sliding on the concrete I figured I'd be down to the bone. As it was I had rash from outside my right ankle all the way up to my waist and from my right wrist all the way to my shoulder. The worst was on the upper shoulder which took 4-5 months to heal, leaving a scar I carry to this day.

chumley wrote:Was probably a lot more fun in the days before rampant litigation.

No, I didn't sue them for my own mistake. In fact, since I still had one more ticket, I jumped on the lift, rode it to the top, jumped on a slide and did another run within 2 seconds of their fastest recorded full run of over 4 minutes.
Oh that's right, they never sold a ticket unless they saw you read the release in full and signed it.

CannondaleKid wrote:In fact, since I still had one more ticket, I jumped on the lift, rode it to the top, jumped on a slide and did another run

Well of course you did! You had to prove that you were faster than your son!

We just got back from doing the Superstition Ridgeline today and I've got to say I absolutely LOVED the first bench we came to on the way down Siphon Draw.
After a long trek like we did it was wonderful to actually sit on something flat, even if but for a few moments. I think the idea of the benches was a very worthwhile Eagle Project and we didn't think they were obtrusive at all.

IMHO the only thing wrong is that they are facing the wrong way! They should be facing the great scenery of the Supes, not Apache Junction.