HikeArizona.COM

Hi all,

I just walked from Utah to Rt 87. I wanted to point out (and this may be common knowledge to all but me) that the overgrowth in the Mazatzal is bad. REALLY BAD.

For anyone hiking this wilderness there will be miles (maybe 10?) of serious overgrowth. The trail is close to lost at many times and much of the overgrowth is plants with thorns. So one has to spend many hours pushing through brush that is going to scratch and cut bare skin. Be prepared for that.

Having hiked in other parts of the Mazatzal before I was used to the complete lack of trail maintenance on the remote seldom traveled trails. But I did not really expect this on the signature trail the AZT. But it is clear that there has been no meaningful or substantial trial work performed south of LF Ranch until one is well out of the wilderness and approaching Rt 87 for many years if not a decade or more.

Trail tread is also gone in many places with washouts and holes, erosion has wiped out much of the trail cuts in sidehills and there are lots of old blowdowns over the trail.

I would guess that another year or two will result in some areas of there being essentially no trail left at all due to the overgrowth. It is clearly a very hard place to get people to do trail maintenance due to accessibility issues. One cannot due this work on weekends as it requires at least 1 day each in and out and then one too several days spent working. A huge task but one that is going to be required pretty soon.

Wyo

Tough_Boots wrote:you do trimming on off-trail routes?

Not as a general rule.

But when following game trails through dense thickets there are times when trimming is a must to continue. And once in a awhile I have to cut my way back out of a dead-end... holly and especially manzanita can have a distinct one-way flow to them and going back against the grain presents additional challenges.

SuperstitionGuy wrote:I am convinced that trimming catclaw just encourages growth.
Ya gotta pull it out roots and all if you want to eradicate it from the trail bed or side.
Just sayin...

Agreed. But since I don't carry the implements to root them out, I do the best I can with what I have.

Yes they will grow back, but for the folks who come through before it has, I'm sure they'd feel it was better than if nothing was done at all.

chumley wrote:Somebody cleared Half Moon Trail!? That person should be worshipped as a god! That trail was miserable!

Anyone checked out if it all grew back yet?

Far Walker

Txs. The old broken back is aching and I need to let it heal up a bit. Will be back on trail (depending on healing of course) in a week or two I hope.

Wyo

I must say the scope and scale of the immature BS above surprised me. But that I guess is the internet and I should have expected no less. I guess I am too old fashioned for these types of forums. When us folks who actually hike a lot interact we think it normal to pass on pertinent info on water sources, trail conditions, and other factors which could impact our fellow hikers. In fact I was told by other hikers that much of the AZT is in very poor condition and was doing my part to pass on info useful to those following me. I just assumed this was the sort of place for that. I won't make that mistake again. But thanks for the lesson in local hospitality.

@CannondaleKid

manzanita can have a distinct one-way flow to them and going back against the grain presents additional challenges

There is always the crawling approach http://hikearizona.com/photo.php?ZIP=182843

@Wyoming

the scope and scale of the immature BS above surprised me

Wyoming wrote:I must say the scope and scale of the immature BS above surprised me. But that I guess is the internet and I should have expected no less. I guess I am too old fashioned for these types of forums. When us folks who actually hike a lot interact we think it normal to pass on pertinent info on water sources, trail conditions, and other factors which could impact our fellow hikers. In fact I was told by other hikers that much of the AZT is in very poor condition and was doing my part to pass on info useful to those following me. I just assumed this was the sort of place for that. I won't make that mistake again. But thanks for the lesson in local hospitality.

I don't think there's anything old fashioned about people having different opinions and/or sharing them. There are plenty of people who appreciate your input, 99.9% of whom don't bother or care to post a reply with a simple "thank you".

As for sharing pertinent information, posting a triplog here linking to the specific section of trail is the easiest way for people to find that information. There is a specific console for entering information about water sources because that is so critical here in Arizona.

For specific maintenance requests pertaining to the Arizona Trail, the non-profit that manages and maintains the trail has a specific form for that which you can find here: http://www.aztrail.org/trailconditions_notify.html

As for local hospitality and the folks who actually hike a lot, you might have missed that none of the immature BS was spouted by anybody who has hiked less than 500 miles this year, so all I can say is I appreciate the sarcasm. You fit in better than you realize! ;)

Wyoming is on trailjournals.com which is where he let us know he and Skipper got off trail.
Goliath also got off trail because of foot problems. I'm still on trail being very conservative with milage due to heat and water logistics. I met another hiker from Alaska, he complained about the water issue and all I could say was "hey dude, it's ARIZONA" as I watched him tromp through Weber creek not stopping to drink or wet his clothes before a eight mile climb and descent to Pine at noon in 100 degree heat..... . Weber by the way is the largest creek I've seen since crossing the Colorado. It's about ten feet across and flowing eight inches deep.
Wyoming I sincerely hope your back heals ( I've broken mine too in the past, as you know),
And that you are out enjoying the trails soon again when it's cooler!

Wyoming wrote:I must say the scope and scale of the immature BS above surprised me.

Me too. Due to the delivery not the opinions. After all a forum is a "public discussion on a specific topic" so there will be a range of opinions. Everyone needs to respect the forum guidelines.

For anyone that wants to simply notify the ATA of trail conditions, CHUMS posted up the pertinent link.

If you only see the bad you honestly haven't viewed HAZ. HAZ is not a forum, the forum is a part of HAZ. CannondaleKid, Tough_Boots, friendofThundergod and such post a lot of helpful info in triplogs.

Reminds me of the AZT. At least 750 miles seemed pretty darn well maintained to me!

Wyoming, even though I haven't hiked with them, I have the feeling that some of our most sarcastic members are also the guys that you could count on in a bad situation and actually do have caring hearts...

Well maybe most of them!

Don't give up on HAZ because of some good natured joshin'

Wyoming wrote:I must say the scope and scale of the immature BS above surprised me

This is a forum where people share opinions for better or worse. Judging the entire site on the forum is missing 99% of the value for anyone looking for good AZT information. As other have mentioned the really good information regarding AZT resides in the triplogs, water reports, and posted tracks that everyone can share and use when planning a fun AZT experience.

Wyoming wrote:I was told by other hikers that much of the AZT is in very poor condition

This all depends on perspective. Having recently completed the entire AZT this past July the trail is in my opinion in
good shape. But again that all depends because a trail runner wearing shorts slowing down for obstacles to less than 3 or 4 mph pace the trail will not meet expectations. This is especially true going southbound as Tough_Boots mentioned that once you drop off the Mogollon Rim it's a whole different trail. Think of the amount of catclaw and manzanita that grows south of the Mogollon Rim all the way to the Mexico border. The trail geology, elevation changes, climate zones, and vegetation are dramatically different. However even with all those factors saying that much of the AZT is in very poor condition is an exaggeration. And again this is in my opinion and perspective that the AZT is by and large a very good trail that many volunteers spend countless hours and weekends helping to maintain for the benefit of everyone.

I just finished that section and it is so overgrown that if they do not fix it the trail will be impassable within a year or two. I love the trail but they are going to lose it if they don't do something soon.

@Spiced Rum
Sounds like more people need to get out there and hike it. Use is an overgrown trail's best friend!

@Spiced Rum
I am going to assume probably not, but any water worthy of enough for a dog from the Red Hills through Brush Spring Trail section?

@chumley
Funny you mention that, I was thinking about that area for this weekend and noticed that the last "posted" triplogs for that area were mine from Feb and March..Hikers have obviously gone through there since, but it certainly proves the area is not regularly hiked..

chumley wrote:Sounds like more people need to get out there and hike it. Use is an overgrown trail's best friend!

Perhaps, but a lot of the brush, at least last April, was oak and that bush that looks like locust with the thorns growing in, and manzanita. I think at this point a saw, loppers, and machete are needed. The overgrowth is a bit beyond foot stomping clearing things up.

@friendofThundergod
White Rock Springs and Polk Springs both had beautiful water and the East Verde was running good but that was the last water until the Mazatzal. It had good water however just about all of the way across it. A good seep is below the trail at mile 369 and quite a few good pools of water there also.

@rcorfman
Much of the growth is 6 foot high and has locust and Blackberry vines all mixed in. If we have this wet winter everyone is talking about the trail will be impossible without some clearing. The foam pad rolled up on the back of my pack was shredded on the ends from all of the brush it scraped across and you figure that is at waist level.

What we need is a shredder like this one but modified to grab and pull the growth out by the roots before shredding.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=p ... Wf5F4ePbJU
Oh, and also the permit to use it in a wilderness area.
Maybe the JohnDeere Corp can design and manufacture such a device and call it the Trail Gator.
It looks like someone has already created the Trail Gator for us. Now we just need one and someone to drive it every year Northbound through the catclaw overtaken trails.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPE_8S3XnAk