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With social media really getting more people involved in backpacking, this is the first year I've NOT been able to secure camping reservations at Havasu Falls / Supai for my summer hiking season. I spent 3 days trying to get through and all the tribe had open was a few dates in September after the holiday.

In my experience, I only recall ONE weekend where the campground was totally packed; all the other times there were plenty of spaces.

So, taking out the "cheap" factor - has anyone EVER been turned away by the tribe for showing up without reservations? I know there is a 100% penalty for showing up without, but at this point I don't care - I really like the 11 mile hike (except the 1st mile, sometimes I feel like other hikers are "pushing" you down the hill since they are all in a hurry).

-nate

Hi,
I am planning my first trip to the falls next spring. It seems like a long hike to do all in one day. I am thinking about staying at the lodge on the canyon floor. I am not sure about camping, as that seems like a lot of equipment to carry in. Any tips would be great.
Thank you,
Stephany

hikeaz wrote:Merely ANOTHER reason to avoid the place.........

Oh, but I enjoy this sort of thing. Cruelty to animals is so much fun to see. Broken hooves and ribs showing and running sores, just a normal part of doing business, right? It's so...traditional!! It's a "heritage" thing! Let's continue to subsidize it! :bdh: :bdh: :bdh: :bdh:

azbackpackr wrote:Broken hooves and ribs showing and running sores, just a normal part of doing business, right? It's so...traditional!! It's a "heritage" thing! Let's continue to subsidize it!

are you talking about the Havasupai horses or the meat industry? I just can't understand how people decide what animals are important to protect and which aren't...

azbackpackr wrote:Oh, but I enjoy this sort of thing. Cruelty to animals is so much fun to see. Broken hooves and ribs showing and running sores, just a normal part of doing business, right? It's so...traditional!! It's a "heritage" thing! Let's continue to subsidize it! :bdh: :bdh: :bdh: :bdh:

I'm so confused.

azbackpackr wrote:It seemed half empty this past September (Havasupai campground).

... which I think is at least the third time you've personally contributed by paying their fees and visiting, and you've also posted that you've witnessed animal cruelty and neglect there as far back as 1999 (maybe earlier?)

So would you prefer that others stop "subsidizing" so you can have the place more to yourself?

@chumley
As elsewhere stated, I'm as guilty as the next person. I saw it and didn't do anything. Have been there 5 times starting in '99, although last fall's trip was my first in 9 years.

Now I'm doing something by making people aware of it. Although I was able to donate only a very small sum, I shared the info with many people, who passed it along. (And many small donations like mine have added up to the amount requested by the Coconino Humane Association for the care of those four horses.) I have seen horses and mules at Supai that were well-cared-for. There are various strings of animals owned by different people.

According to Dr. Orman, a pediatrician who lives on the Navajo reservation and rescues many animals, the various problems of animal neglect in his neighborhood could be much more easily solved than some of the human problems. Human problems are much more complex, he points out. This is also likely true at Supai. Shine a little light at this problem, could see a big improvement. It's bad for business, for one thing.

@azbackpackr
Please tell me there was a pun intended there, with your liberal use of the "beating a dead horse" emoji

@friendofThundergod
Couldn't resist.

slbparty wrote:I am planning my first trip to the falls next spring. It seems like a long hike to do all in one day.

How much do you normally hike? For most people, it's kind of a slog coming back out, but the hike down to the campground isn't too difficult, especially if you avoid hot weather.

big_load wrote:

slbparty wrote:I am planning my first trip to the falls next spring. It seems like a long hike to do all in one day.

How much do you normally hike? For most people, it's kind of a slog coming back out, but the hike down to the campground isn't too difficult, especially if you avoid hot weather.

Stephany -
Building on what Little_LOAD wrote. Getting to the Lodge isn't particularly easy. It is still 8 miles even with a light daypack with water and food. And the slog out is a slog. If you are wealthier than most of us, you can charter a helicopter flight in and out. From the Lodge it is about 1/2 mile to the viewpoint for Navajo falls. And about a mile to the campground. But really no AEG. From the Campground it is .75miles(?) (my memory might be changing this mileage) to the descent to Mooney Falls. You get a great view of Mooney from up above before you drop down. The drop down is awesome. You crawl through some tunnels and then come out to a chain. I hope you are not claustrophobic. You will white knuckle the chain down to the ladders. Sometimes the ladders are suspicious - missing a few rungs. But if you can conquer your fears, and not get injured, you will get to the bottom and look up at Mooney falls. Oh yeah, Mooney is named for a man who died getting to the bottom. The view from the bottom of Mooney is the prime experience for Havasupai.

One day to the Lodge and then to Mooney then back to the Lodge to stay overnight. Then out. Nice Trip. You could utilize the helicopter to get to the Lodge, hike to Mooney then back to the lodge. Then chopper out the next morning. perfect. That's now I would do it if I had any money. If you've got the money, honey, take me with you and I will be your guide.

@Tough_Boots
What's instagram?

@Tough_Boots
Horse is not uncommon in the meat industries elsewhere...I once got into a discussion with a Finnish in law that was meant as an off color joke but turned a little serious for my liking. Mostly because he was 6' 8" and at least a solid 260...

An article today popped up about the lack of permit availability

http://www.azcentral.com/story/news/loc ... /84462922/

@cw50must
I don't think the tribe really cares because money is money regardless of who is paying -- and who knows if they collect an extra percentage of the fees that tour groups charge? -- transparency is amazing when the manager of the camping office doesn't even want to be named in the story! -- but a lot of the congestion would likely be alleviated if permits restricted group size to 6 or even 10.

People getting through on the phone and reserving hundreds of permits for one date is absolutely ridiculous. It's like scalping tickets for sporting events!

joebartels wrote:If they're smart they'll quadruple the fee next year. Based on the GC permit/fee for R2R, people love to pay fees. No need to hesitate, make 'em happy!

Looks like you called this one Joe. Starting 02/01/2017
http://www.azcentral.c...

The entrance fee will be $50 per person, up from $35. The camping fee will be $25 per person per night, up from $17, and the environment fee is doubling to $10 per person. Taxes are additional. All visitors pay the entrance fee, whether they are camping or staying at Havasupai Lodge. Day trips are not permitted.

This is the first fee increase in about 15 years and is based on increased operating expenses, according to the tribe.

Just as significant: Travelers must now pay those fees when they make their camping reservations rather when they arrive at the bottom of the canyon. The payment (Visa and MasterCard only) will be non-refundable and non-transferable. Names of the entire party must be provided at the time of the reservation.

Names of the entire party must be provided at the time of the reservation.

Required pre-payment and requiring names will likely help alleviate some of the strain on the system. But I'm not sure how they are going to enforce it. If I pay for a reservation for me, John, and Joe but I show up with Jane and Betty instead, do they get denied and sent back to the trailhead?

Maybe use it to create an online reservation system?!

I won't go there again. I doubt they have completely resolved the horse abuse problem, the trash problem, the campground thievery problem, etc. And now they want...how much money? Plus, it's too crowded for my taste. I prefer camping and hiking where there is no one else around. That is, if I could hike. I just bought a rack and panniers for my mountain bike. My foot problem continues.

article about an online reservation system:

http://www.azcentral.com/story/travel/a ... /97403080/

I just went through the process ... The online system is modeled after a car-accessible type campground where there are specific site numbers.

If you select a three night stay from July 1-4, it may show no availability even though there are sites available on each night. It's just that the SAME site isn't available on each night. That's not a good system for Havasupai, but I guess it's better than the old phone system.

I also saw nothing where you have to enter the names of other members of your group. The permit holder must provide name and payment up front. It looks like the permit holder can bring anybody they want.

@chumley
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