HikeArizona.COM

I can't believe this is actually a story...you know it means though that someone has actually been doing it ...

Wildlife officials are asking hikers to refrain from bringing domestic sheep or goats into bighorn sheep habitat in the Catalina Mountains because the domestic animals can transmit diseases such as pneumonia to bighorns
http://tucson.com/news/local/domestic-s ... bc808.html

Widowmaker wrote: travel with their pet chicken. It looked funny with a small collar tied to their motorhome. The lady said it was her baby

We've camped with pet chickens and found the best way to keep them from running off was to keep them in a Dutch oven................with green chillies and garlic.

@Alston Neal
It was common practice back in the day for people to carry chickens with them on their journeys, only to use them for food later on. The meat doesn't spoil on even the hottest day while it's still alive.

@chumley
Yeah we only camped once with our cat.

chumley wrote:It was common practice back in the day

* I saw it in a movie once.

@Alston Neal
Presumably rescued from the Gilbert Riparian Preserve?

Initiate locked thread. Countdown begins in 3... 2... 1....

@chumley
Snort snort chortle..

lindaagm wrote:People watching will always be the most interesting thing on SoMo.

Amen to that!

I've packed with goats myself. Laugh all you want -- They'll go places a horse could never go, follow better than a dog, can go at least a day without water, feed themselves along the way (they're about the only creature I know that eats manzanita or juniper) and a 200 pound wether can carry 40 pounds of gear. Easy to care for, friendly, and easy to transport.

I get the concern regarding the bighorn sheep, and there HAVE been issues from meat goat herds (not packers) -- it's not pneumonia, iirc, they're worried about in Arizona, but a form of chlamydia that causes blindness in bighorn. (And in domestic goats, but it's easily treated and cured with tetracycline in domestic goats.) They lost a bunch down in S. AZ from a goat herd that wasn't well managed.

Most goat packers I know go to great lengths to ensure their stock is healthy, up to and including keeping them separate from all strange goats and sheep, and disease testing new stock before introducing it to an established herd. I avoided areas where I knew that there were bighorn out of concern that the sheep might make my goats sick, and my goats were always within a few feet of me on the trail, not running off to share cooties with wild sheep -- though again, I avoided areas where I knew there were sheep too. I lived near the Maricopa Mountains when I had my packers, and I strictly avoided the sheep herd that's up there.

Restricting goats from wilderness areas is actually a big hot button issue for goat packers -- there's never been a documented case of illness transmitted from a pack goat to a sheep, though again, meat goat herds can be an issue. (The way meat goats are raised is very different from how pack goats are raised.)

@FriendofThundergod and @chumley When are y'all gonna start goatpacking? Apparently this is a thing and you guys are usually cutting edge.

JasonCleghorn wrote:When are y'all gonna start goatpacking?

Goatpacking is soooooo 2012 ;)

[ photoset ]

Tough_Boots wrote:

JasonCleghorn wrote:When are y'all gonna start goatpacking?

Goatpacking is soooooo 2012 ;)

[ photoset ]

Well I'll be damned... At this point I'll only be surprised if the goat was eaten.

@JasonCleghorn
Our appetites were quite satisfied from Lobster Mac n Cheese that backpack trip. Because that's how we roll.

chumley wrote:@JasonCleghorn
Our appetites were quite satisfied from Lobster Mac n Cheese that backpack trip. Because that's how we roll.

I thought that was maybe a HAZFEST...

JasonCleghorn wrote:I thought that was maybe a HAZFEST...

More like a Hippie Fest....

ljcygnet wrote:there's never been a documented case of illness transmitted from a pack goat to a sheep,

Leave it to the Government to fix something that was never broken....

ljcygnet wrote:there's never been a documented case of illness transmitted from a pack goat to a sheep,

This is pretty misleading. As of 2012 (the latest report I looked at), there had never even been a documented case of domestic sheep infecting bighorn sheep with tuberculosis. Why? Because it's really, really hard to document disease transmission. You have to observe contact between the two species, document that the domestic sheep had the disease, and document that the bighorn got it from the domestic sheep. That's practically impossible. But there is abundant anecdotal evidence for disease transmission, and that is good enough.

As for the goats, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. I don't know how you can ensure that goats are "healthy" given that goats can transmit several diseases to bighorns, and the bacteria do not necessarily cause symptoms in the goats. Pack animals wander off sometimes. Given that some of the diseases in question have high mortality rates, the Forest Service is making the safest decision by keeping the goats out.

Of course, there are easy solutions if goats are banned--just carry your stuff or hike elsewhere with the goats.

outdoor_lover wrote:Leave it to the Government to fix something that was never broken....

Inconveniencing a tiny number of people based on an abundance of evidence is hardly bad government.

flagscott wrote:Inconveniencing a tiny number of people based on an abundance of evidence is hardly bad government.

I'm betting the Mountain Lions are pretty Inconvenienced too, but that doesn't Affect People at all, does it? Or does it? Mountain Lions are no longer allowed to touch the Sheep and now Domestic Goats aren't even allowed in the same RANGE as the Sheep...What Next for a Herd that Failed in that Location Historically in the First Place? They are going to start closing off Sections of the National Forest for them...Oh wait, they already do that too....That affects more than a Tiny Number I think....When do we say enough??? We are doing everything we can to Protect the Bighorn Sheep in the Catalinas so that they can be Hunted by a Tiny Number of People.... I'm all about the Wildlife, and Bighorn Sheep are very Cool. But for an Agency to coddle this Herd as much as they are is not good Wildlife "Management". Sorry, I still find the Whole Thing Ludicrous and they are strengthening my Disdain with every new "Restriction" that they want to put in place for these Diva Sheep....

I was always under the impression that native species are extremely important to the integrity of an ecosystem.

https://www.youtube.co...

Trophic Cascades! Nature's version of trickle-down economics ... which @tough_boots enthusiastically supports in many other haz threads. ;)

Voodoo Ecologics!

Tough_Boots wrote:I was always under the impression that native species are extremely important to the integrity of an ecosystem.

Then why are they eliminating the Mountain Lions? You cannot compare what is happening with the Wolves in Yellowstone to the Bighorn Sheep in the Catalinas...Two totally different Scenarios....And in Yellowstone, they are not Eliminating One Species to "ensure" the Survival of another....Especially an Apex Predator....