HikeArizona.COM

Lots of activity in Springerville this morning, with the Prescott Hot Shots arriving at Safeway for a snack, and other buses full of firefighters seen on the highway heading for the "Wallow Fire" in Bear Wallow Wilderness Area, south of Hannagan. The smoke is not that visible, although my daughter was over at Hulsey yesterday and saw the smoke. I was up at Big Lake early this morning and could see only a haze of smoke south of there, not a big plume. I think winds too strong for it to plume up much. I'm back in Flag now, so I won't get the firsthand news any more.

Oh, and no campfires or charcoal grills allowed in the campgrounds since last night in Apache-Sitgreaves NF (Big Lake, Hannagan, etc.) I think stoves still allowed. Not sure about non-campgrounds.

Here's a news story on the Wallow Fire, but as of this writing it has not made it to inciweb yet. (Maybe tomorrow?)
( dead link removed )

Perimeter Map [ Wallow Fire Map 2011-06-27 :: map ]
Inciweb ( dead link removed )

Today I hiked state land right outside Eagar, to the top of a cinder hill looking into the South Fork area. Then I learned 260 is open. I drove to South Fork Road, no closed signs. I drove all the way in to the campground. Some firefighters were getting ready to hike up the South Fork Trail, and needed info. I had plenty of info to give them, and they thanked me profusely. They were from Oregon. They had only the little hikers' map from the Springerville RD!

I was wrong about the South Fork Trail, as were those who told me it is torched. It is mostly ground fire. I later drove up 260 to where I had a direct view up the canyon. It had crown fire only in a couple little areas, the rest was green treetops.

I am very happy about South Fork. I think it will be ok if it was mostly ground fire. Maybe burn out some of that nasty poison ivy in there!

Nutrioso residents returned home at 9 a.m. today.

Look at the spread maps, if growth on a day is small, expect a backing ground fire with some torching. If growth is large, expect head and flank fire with crown fire.


It's up to 478,000. Yesterday, John Kyle reported that the fire had cost 65 million dollars to that day, to suppress. With BAER and full suppression, this could easily top 100,000,000 dollars. In 2006 we talked about a logging company thinning a forest to about 700 dollars per acre. Even if that went up to 1000 per acre, that is still 100,000 acres that could have been treated. That doesn't even talk about the Coronado NF fires, or that all areas do not require mechanical thinning.

azbackpackr wrote:I drove to South Fork Road, no closed signs. I drove all the way in to the campground.

The Forest Closure Order doesn't say the forest is closed if you see a sign. It says it's closed. It is not permitted to be on forest service land, forest service roads, or forest service trails. AZ-260 is a state highway, and is exempt from the closure. However, leaving the highway is not permitted.

Exceptions include members of law enforcement, firefighters, land owners ... and "area residents". Not sure if you would qualify under the "area residents" exception or not.

But for as much as $5,000 and 6 months in jail, it wouldn't be worth it to me. Sign or no sign.

Of course, since you took the risk, thanks for the report.

South Fork campground is the one just west of town ? Condition ?

Jim_H wrote: It's up to 478,000. Yesterday, John Kyle reported that the fire had cost 65 million dollars to that day, to suppress. With BAER and full suppression, this could easily top 100,000,000 dollars. In 2006 we talked about a logging company thinning a forest to about 700 dollars per acre. Even if that went up to 1000 per acre, that is still 100,000 acres that could have been treated. That doesn't even talk about the Coronado NF fires, or that all areas do not require mechanical thinning.

From KPHO today:
"Wallow Vs. Rodeo-Chediski: No Contest
Wallow Fire Surpasses Rodeo-Chediski In Size Alone
KPHO CBS 5 News UPDATED: 11:27 am MST June 15, 2011 http://www.kpho.com/news/28235900/detail.html

EAGAR, Ariz. -- Now that the Wallow Fire has surpassed Rodeo-Chediski in total acreage, it is considered the biggest wildfire ever to ravage Arizona, and it's still growing. Evacuees who experienced both fires have been making comparisons for days.

Nancy Browne, a Rodeo-Chediski evacuee said, "It was just terrible. I mean just, it's devastation, is all I can say. Looked like a bomb hit."
"This is much worse than that ever was," Ross Ashcroft said of the Wallow Fire. "We were living in Eagar at the time, and all we saw was just smoke from (the Rodeo-Chediski). I figure this is just about the same size now."

The size is similar, but things get a little more murky when you try to call Wallow Arizona's worst fire. There are dramatic differences in scale between the two.

First, take into consideration the speed of the flames.
The Rodeo-Chediski fire first sparked on June 18, 2002, and and scorched 460,000 acres in just eight days.
It took the Wallow fire twice that long, 16 days.

The Rodeo-Chediski fire churned through more populated areas of east-central Arizona and destroyed 426 homes.
That warranted a visit by then President George W. Bush. "I'm here to say thanks to people who are doing their best to spread compassion to people who need compassion," Bush said at the time.
The Wallow Fire has ripped apart 31 homes, significant, sure, but small by comparison.

And the most glaring difference remains the cost.
If you add up suppression, rehabilitation, reforestation and property losses, Rodeo-Chediski cost a total of $308 million.
The final cost of the Wallow Fire is still a long way off, but is expected to be far less.
If the fire were to stop growing today, a rough estimate of it's final cost stands at $196 million.
Of course, those numbers mean nothing to families that have lost everything."

I love Bush's quote, "..spread compassion to people who need compassion". Obama would probably say, "..spread money to people who needs money." Where's the line?

Aside from the politicizing of that piece and the odd axe to grind between Bush and Obama, 196 million is still a lot of money. It is less than the 308 million from the previously largest fire, if it doesn't pass 200 million, so that's good. That kind of weird injection of politics and opinion into what should just be news and reporting in the Valley is why I stopped watching TV news in Arizona. It's bizarre they felt the need to do that.

I wasn't trying to 'politicize' the issue or topic, I just wanted to beat Te Wa to the punch.

Oh, you did that? I thought that was a part of the quote from the news story. Still, I don't watch TV news anymore.

Moovyoaz wrote:The final cost of the Wallow Fire is still a long way off, but is expected to be far less.

Randy, unlike people who only see things in dollars, we here at haz find it hard to swallow the true cost of a fire like this one, which is the loss of over 400,000 acres of prime AZ landscape.

http://www.kfyi.com/cc-common/news/sect ... le=8709708

'two people are being questioned about an abandoned campfire that may have started the blaze.'
'We're also hearing that two separate fires, both believed to be arson, were set during the Wallow Fire.'

I hadn't heard anything about two arson fires...how sad.

BUT I am happy that so many people are able to return to their homes the past few days...

I knew about the two people were being questioned by police and NFS after the fire started on May 29th. But I had heard nothing about any "arson" fires started. My sources told me it started in Bear Wallow Wilderness from an abandoned campfire and then a spot fire was started 2-3 miles away after the original fire got out on control.

I bet people are conflating "negligently leaving a campfire" with "arson".

During the Mt Eldon fire in Flagstaff years ago there were reports that firefighters were re-starting hot spots in order to keep working that fire (read: keep getting paid). I don't believe any formal investigations resulted. I can only hope no such malicious activity exists in any of the fires being fought today...

paulhubbard wrote:During the Mt Eldon fire in Flagstaff years ago there were reports that firefighters were re-starting hot spots in order to keep working that fire (read: keep getting paid). I don't believe any formal investigations resulted. I can only hope no such malicious activity exists in any of the fires being fought today...

You hear that same rumor on every major fire, it seems...

chumley wrote:

azbackpackr wrote:I drove to South Fork Road, no closed signs. I drove all the way in to the campground.

The Forest Closure Order doesn't say the forest is closed if you see a sign. It says it's closed. It is not permitted to be on forest service land, forest service roads, or forest service trails. AZ-260 is a state highway, and is exempt from the closure. However, leaving the highway is not permitted.

Exceptions include members of law enforcement, firefighters, land owners ... and "area residents". Not sure if you would qualify under the "area residents" exception or not.

But for as much as $5,000 and 6 months in jail, it wouldn't be worth it to me. Sign or no sign.

Of course, since you took the risk, thanks for the report.

I think I was on a county road, though, until entering the campground. And then I did my good Scout deed for the day, helping the lost firefighters. They truly had no clue, and had a terrible map.

And yes, Nighthiker, the one just west of Eagar. It is in very good condition. Ground fire on the hillsides. Nothing at all burned within the campground, which I may add, is distinguished by having a creek run through the middle of it, and you can camp right by the creek. However, what is even better is to do a one or two night easy backpacking trip 4 miles up the creek. Looked to me from 260 we didn't lose too many trees in there.

For the record, if the firefighters were going for a hike, they would also be in violation of the closure order, since their presence is allowed only while on official duty. But you'd be hard pressed to find a single person not willing to let them have a little personal time after all the time and effort they've put in. But if Baldy starts burning, then maybe that whole "firefighter arson to keep working" thing might come into question again...

Thnkas for the info on South Fork, used it in the past for a base camp while hiking the area.

chumley wrote:For the record, if the firefighters were going for a hike, they would also be in violation of the closure order, since their presence is allowed only while on official duty. But you'd be hard pressed to find a single person not willing to let them have a little personal time after all the time and effort they've put in. But if Baldy starts burning, then maybe that whole "firefighter arson to keep working" thing might come into question again...

Huh? I didn't say they were going for a hike! I said they were hiking up the trail! There were about 10 vehicles and a LOT of firefighters. I'm assuming they were a mopup crew, which is very hard, grunt work. They also said they would be cutting away any trees that have already fallen across the trail. I thought it very odd that the Incident Command saw fit to give them only the Springerville RD hiking booklet, which does not show the dirt roads in the area. They had penned one in, but didn't know where it came out or the name of it, so I was able to tell them it was 8070A, which goes from 261 all the way to Greer Lakes, but is gated off before it crosses the South Fork of the LCR.

Mopup crews dig up stumps that are still smoldering. Very labor intensive, very hard, very hot work.

I'm sure the last thing the firefighters want to do on their off-time right now is go for a recreational hike