HikeArizona.COM

Hi All,

I was on a beautiful hike this past saturday morning on the Bluffs Springs Trail in the Sups. The Temperature cooperated, the sun was behind clouds, there was a nice breeze and of course anyone who's been out there knows the scenery is increadible.

The only weird thing about the hike was on the way back to the trailhead at the end of my hike probably within a half mile of the peralta trailhead, I ran into these two guys that were all suited up for war games or something. Camo, Knives strapped to gear suspenders, a pistol at the older man's side who had so much facial hair, you could barely see his face.

As I passed them with my hiking poles out the older guy said to me all suprised, "Ski Poles?!!!" I quickly explained they helped the old knees on the way down after I noticed he had a gun at his side. I pretty much smiled and nodded then continued on my way.

Now I'm all for everyone's right to bear arms and all, but seeing this kind of freaked me out. I know it's legal to carry handguns in Arizona and that's fine, but I was thinking there isn't a very large reason to carry a gun out there, especially if you are with another full grown adult male.

I have no idea what their reason would be for bringing those types of weopons out there, and the whole incident was a bit disturbing. I was glad that I encountered these yahoo's close to the trailhead. Anyone else run into any of these gun toting militia type weirdo's?

Paul

ya, wake up to a bear outside your tent and tell me all about how guns are bad...

appsaz wrote:ya, wake up to a bear outside your tent and tell me all about how guns are bad...

Ever actually shot a bear? I hear this all the time, and to be honest.. I wouldn't bother with anything less than a .30cal rifle. Personally.

Far easier to keep food away from your tent.

btw, I have nothing against handguns, I own several.. I just don't believe that the bear outside your tent is as much of a concern as your random human being is.

.44 Magnum is pretty effective against large animals, however, I'm not really concerned about the four-legged variety. As dysfunction indicates, it's mostly the two-legged types one should be most concerned about (rabid or not).

I've always enjoyed my wild animal encounters... never felt a real need to be afraid. then again, there could come a time where the animal decided mayhem was the order of the day... Last bad outdoor encounter was with a drunken group. They thought I'd make fun entertainment. I pointed out that I weighed 230 pounds, and if they got close enough, I'd rip their arms off their body. The image had a very sobering effect; they left me alone. In truth, I'v never been in a fight; never hit anyone. I've always thought of something to say that seems to make them change their mind. Of course, a gun might have that same effect.

I'm with Mike to an extent: When I have a gun with me it is there for fire suppression purposes. I'd manhandle most nut-jobs I run into up close or go for a knife if the person was armed and threatening. Knives make people pay attention - it's something primal. That dumb "Knife to a gunfight" thing doesn't hold water, either; trust me - you can close ground on someone with a pistol before he or she can get a shot off 9 out of 10 times and you can certainly do it before you can draw and fire your own weapon.

Down here in southern AZ we have drug mules, drunken armed hillbillies, energy drink-crazed motocross wannabees, and other assorted riffraff that could be looking to do someone harm in the backcountry. One commonality is that all of them are armed and all usually travel in groups. Firing back gives me a chance to break contact and get a call out to the law if they are dumb enough to try to punch my ticket. Anyone who thinks he or she could prevail in an armed confrontation like that has never been in an armed confrontation.

The bear thing is a different problem, entirely. Were one in my camp it would tell me I did a lousy job of securing food and trash (Which has happened.) I would hardly hold the bear responsible for that. If he decided I was dinner or went near my kid, he'd get a full magazine and I'd have to hope it stopped him because it would be hand-to-hand, next. Until it's kill or be killed, there's absolutely no reason to engage an animal; especially a very large one that might win a fight you start...

Jeff MacE wrote:hat dumb "Knife to a gunfight" thing doesn't hold water, either; trust me - you can close ground on someone with a pistol before he or she can get a shot off 9 out of 10 times and you can certainly do it before you can draw and fire your own weapon.

Tuesday as I was headed out of the Supes a couple hours before sundown, I met a guy hiking in wearing head-to-toe camo with a rifle stuck barrel-down in his pack. I'm not sure what he planned to do with it, but it did strike me as impractical for self-defense. I can't really rate him as a "scary NRA militia type", since he was polite and non-threatening. As I probably mentioned many pages ago on this thread, I have encountered a few guys near there who truly deserve that label.

I ran into a couple (Maybe three?) bozos on Butterfly while backpacking many years back that looked like something out of an episode of Millennium. Mismatched camo, SKS or Mini-14 rifles (Hillbilly M4's,) old Vietnam-era LBE equipment that looked like it had been bleached, the whole nine yards. One had a full-color Marine Recon unit patch sewn on his old Army woodland camo blouse, though he was way beyond weight standards so there was no way he was active duty anything; let alone Recon. I asked them what they were doing and they told me it was "Training." They got miffed and stormed off after I replied with laughter.

FWIW - if our legislature has its way it looks like you might have fewer and fewer of these kinds of encounters because all of these crackpots will be carrying concealed sans permit!

Jeff MacE wrote:FWIW - if our legislature has its way it looks like you might have fewer and fewer of these kinds of encounters because all of these crackpots will be carrying concealed sans permit!

Do you really think a law will change that. Criminals ALREADY carry concealed WITHOUT a permit...

allanalxndr wrote:

Jeff MacE wrote:FWIW - if our legislature has its way it looks like you might have fewer and fewer of these kinds of encounters because all of these crackpots will be carrying concealed sans permit!

Do you really think a law will change that. Criminals ALREADY carry concealed WITHOUT a permit...

Give me a break...what kid of fool do you take me for? OF COURSE THEY DO. That doesn't change the fact that this is a really mindless policy decision!

oops.

big_load wrote:Tuesday as I was headed out of the Supes a couple hours before sundown, I met a guy hiking in wearing head-to-toe camo with a rifle stuck barrel-down in his pack. I'm not sure what he planned to do with it, but it did strike me as impractical for self-defense. I can't really rate him as a "scary NRA militia type", since he was polite and non-threatening. As I probably mentioned many pages ago on this thread, I have encountered a few guys near there who truly deserve that label.

During hunting seasons I have met hunters on numerous occasions in the eastern Supes - some successful and some not. Most hunters are usually in groups. If one is successful, they have to bone the kill and haul out on foot. As a wilderness, no mechanized transport is allowed. I'm not aware of what hunting season it might be in March in the Supes. I'm not sure if it's still javelina season.

Jeff MacE wrote:FWIW - if our legislature has its way it looks like you might have fewer and fewer of these kinds of encounters because all of these crackpots will be carrying concealed sans permit!

I'm hoping this passes because living in Page it is almost impossible to get to Phoenix to take a reasonably priced CCW class. Up here in Page they run about $150. Down in Phx they're $35-$45. I want to get a permit but time is the issue, so being able to holster without worrying if I have to tuck in my shirt or not (really the only difference) would be a great help to me.

Al_HikesAZ wrote:Sounds like a hunter.

Is there anything worthwhile in season in the Supes now? I've seen hunters out in deer season before, but I didn't figure anything bigger than squirrels and rabbits was on now.

Up in OR this September, I ran into a guy 16 miles from the TH who carried only a bow and a Camelbak. I found his camp later on, so he wasn't all that far from base, but it's still a long way to haul a deer when he gets one. (I don't think there was any question of "if").

Jeff MacE wrote:

allanalxndr wrote:

Jeff MacE wrote:FWIW - if our legislature has its way it looks like you might have fewer and fewer of these kinds of encounters because all of these crackpots will be carrying concealed sans permit!

Do you really think a law will change that. Criminals ALREADY carry concealed WITHOUT a permit...

Give me a break...what kid of fool do you take me for? OF COURSE THEY DO. That doesn't change the fact that this is a really mindless policy decision!

Agree that there is definitely more important things to deal with, but I support it. Open carry is already legal in AZ, this lets that same person cover it up without a permit and the joke of a process to obtain one.

In response to big_load:
Javelina and bear seasons I recall

Yea, the current CCW process is more of a technicality than anything else. Mine looks like it was produced by an old typewriter...no chance of fraud there, either!

big_load wrote:Is there anything worthwhile in season in the Supes now? I've seen hunters out in deer season before, but I didn't figure anything bigger than squirrels and rabbits was on now.

dysfunction is right about javelina in that Unit. That is Game Management Unit 24b. Javelina is January - March. Bear season in that unit is Sept/Oct and only a couple of permits. I can see hunting Javelina alone but I can't recommend it. I can't see hunting bear alone under any circumstances.

Unit Summary
Primary Game Species/ Hunting Month(s)
Deer (Mule, White-tailed) August-January
Javelina January-March
Quail October-February

Secondary Game Species/ Hunting Month(s)
Mountain Lion Year-round
Bear September/October

Average # permits in past 5 years
Mule Deer 780
White-tailed Deer 480
Javelina 883

So in Nov/Dec at the end of Muley season and the rut, I suggest wearing an orange blaze vest.

East of 24b in 24a there is a Black Bear season in April.

Al_HikesAZ wrote: I can't see hunting bear alone under any circumstances.

That's because you've never met me I dont even bring a gun when I'm out lookin' for teddys

(kidding)