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I'm wondering if anyone with a GPS knows why I had such a bad experience with one I borrowed yesterday. I'm in the market for buying one, and a friend allowed me to test his ... is was a Garmin eTrex.

I used it when hiking First Water to Battleship Mountain. The first 3.5 miles were fine, and then all of the sudden I looked down (maybe a minute later) and it said I had gone 17 miles, and that my max speed had jumped from 4mph to 47.1mph. I'm honestly not the Dash or Flash Gordon or anything. ;)

From that point on, the reliability of the data was spotty. It never developed a consistent trail from the hike, and on the way back some of the tracking back to the waypoints I created worked...and then others said weird things like 22 miles to the next waypoint that I knew was 1-3 miles away.

Was it just a defective device, or do just GPS's do that sometimes and I just had bad luck? I'm actually now looking into getting a Magellan Triton 500, but any help anyone could give me on this would be much appreciated!

I am having a problem "uploading" from HAZ to my Garmin(model 60CSx) most all posted HAZ Garmin Mapsource-GDB Format routes.

Most of the time when I select the above needed GPS format to upload from a HAZ- GPS hiking route, it transfers into my Garmin with a message(from my Garmin) that states: "Truncated" (which means: the end removed; shortened by having a part cut off or removed).

Has anyone else experienced this problem on any other GPS unit or model? and if so, how have you been able to resolve it?
Does anyone have any ideas of how to resolve it? I don't know if this problem is unique to my Garmin or possibly an issue that Joe might want to further look into?

For example, over the past few weeks I have attempted to "upload" the following HAZ hike GPS Routes to my Garmin unit with the following success or truncated failure:
Moody Point TR#140: Randal's Route= success; Nonot's two Routes= failure; Topohike's Route= failure(and he has the same GPS unit as I do);
Sunflower Trail#344: Gpsjoe's Route= failure;
Frasier-Randolph Loop: Joe Bartel's Route= success;
South Fork-Gold Ridge Loop: Smorgasborg's Route= failure;

Any thoughts on this are appreciated!

Hank, you may have to edit the track down to 500 points or less (300?) before uploading it to your GPS as a separate track. Or, split it into multiple tracks each less that 300/500 points.

Also, you can only have so many tracks/routes in a Garmin GPS at one time. This is why I switched over to creating a Garmin map rather than loading a bunch of individual tracks.

nonot wrote:Hank, you may have to edit the track down to 500 points or less (300?) before uploading it to your GPS as a separate track. Or, split it into multiple tracks each less that 300/500 points.

Steve, thank you! I would have never figured-out this to be the problem. Now I just need to figure out how to edit a downloaded HAZ GPS Route to accommodate the max # of route points my Garmin will take(which I believe is ~500) . Why does this happen? Is it just a problem with Garmin(that they need to fix) or with other mfgs too? I believe a lot of posted HAZ GPS Routes are more than 500 points..

Here's another Garmin trick I just learned. All this for a 76CSx, the numbers may be different for different models.

You can only have 20 Tracks of 500 points each saved to the receiver, plus the ACTIVE LOG, which can have 10,000 points.

So, open your track in MapSource, save it as ACTIVE LOG, and then load it into the receiver. Once it's in the receiver, change the name to whatever you want.

Worked like charm, I have all of the AZT that is available loaded into 4 tracks.

Sredfield wrote:So, open your track in MapSource, save it as ACTIVE LOG, and then load it into the receiver. Once it's in the receiver, change the name to whatever you want.

So Shawn, I understand what you are saying, but after you open in Mapsource from HAZ the GPS Route you plan to download, how do you direct from Mapsource the download to the GPS unit to go to the active log vrs the saved/receiver log? I don't see an option in the Mapsource TOPO software program to give me this option? When I initiate this SEND function(to the GPS unit) in Mapsource, it always goes into my saved/receiver log and not into the active log.

THIS APPLIES TO TRACKS, not ROUTES. Not sure what you are getting from HAZ but I would suspect you could get it as either. ????

"after you open in Mapsource from HAZ the GPS Route you plan to download,"

In Track Properties (right click the Track, Track Properties) the name is highlighted-type ACTIVE LOG. Then Transfer from the menu, and Send to Device.

Let me know if that works, if not we can PM more.

Grasshopper wrote:Is it just a problem with Garmin(that they need to fix) or with other mfgs too? I believe a lot of posted HAZ GPS Routes are more than 500 points..

It's not a "problem" according to Garmin's manuals, it is simply the limit they have on their devices. It's hard to believe that with all the technology in the units they have such an archaic limit, but they do. I don't think Magellan's have this limit.

I use the gps maps I create though which is much better than fiddle farting with tracks all the time, so it no longer bothers me.

nonot wrote:I use the gps maps I create though which is much better than fiddle farting with tracks all the time, so it no longer bothers me.

I agree this would be a better solution, but I have not progressed to this level yet with understanding how to create my own topo maps to load, so until I can, I just wanted to reconfirm that anyone who has a Garmin and is experiencing a "Track Truncated" error when downloading a track from HAZ to their unit with more than 500 points in the track, should use Shawn Sredfield's below good advice.. It worked for me!!

Hank, the GPS will only display the last 10000 points in the active log. Depending on the way you have your GPS set, if you leave it on long enough it will no longer display your active log as newer points will eventually replace the track you have to follow. On a multi-day trip this could leave you with no track to follow! Maybe I am misunderstanding what Shawn is saying though?

Another thing you can do is open up the track in Garmin mapsource. Right click on the track and select "Track properties", on the new page, select "Filter", select Maximum Points and change the maximum points value to a number less than 500 and click ok. Save the track, then load it to your GPS. Your track will be a little less accurate but at least you will see it all and can't lose it.

nonot wrote:Hank, the GPS will only display the last 10000 points in the active log. Depending on the way you have your GPS set, if you leave it on long enough it will no longer display your active log as newer points will eventually replace the track you have to follow. On a multi-day trip this could leave you with no track to follow! Maybe I am misunderstanding what Shawn is saying though?

Shawn has figured-out how to fool the Garmin technology and I have learned a few things thru trial and error:
I took your Moody Pt TR#140 GPS Track for 1073pts and followed Shawn's below instructions to make it load into my Garmin ACTIVE LOG (no track truncation this way); then I can save this 1073pt track to my units saved tracks option (my unit will hold a max of 20 saved tracks before I need to delete any); after saving it my to saved tracks option, then I cancel this 1073 track out of my ACTIVE LOG.. this way my active log is always 100% free for my new planned day hike track(s); or I can leave the 1073 pt track in my active log if I chose too since I have a "% full" alert that shows me how much % avaliable memory I stilll have left in the active log while I am doing hikes with the track set to "on"; When I get home from say a day hike or a multi-day hiking trips with different tracks saved on the unit, I just upload them on my computer Garmin Mapsource Topo 2008 software, then make changes as required on the computer and then save the tracks in a file in my C drive... after I have saved them on my computer, then I go back into my Garmin and usually clear-out(cancel) all the saved tracks so that the next time I go out hiking both my saved tracks and active track memories will be 100% available...Does this make sense to anyone? (it does work for me so far);

Also, Steve thanks for the info on your 2nd paragraph as I was wondering what the "filter function" did and thus how to reduce the # of track points!

Credit where due . . .

I found that tip on Yahoo Groups, Garmin 76CSx. It's a great resource for how to live with Garmin, who apparently have no idea how to write a manual.

There has been a continuation of this below 11/30-12/3/08 "GPS wierdnesses" discussion on the maximum number of track points a Garmin GPS will hold on the forum thread "The Rug Road": http://www.hikearizona.com/dex2/viewtop ... f=7&t=3091

For those who would like to continue this discussion, I thought it might be better served to continue it here in the original thread on this subject.

I didn't have any problems. But I go from HAZ to GPS, not HAZ => Mapsource => GPS. I have directions listed under FAQs. The GPS unit is basically an external hardrive, plug it in, save file to the GPX folder, done. Same way to load.

Where are you seeing "Truncated" on the unit or in mapsource?



My directions in FAQs

Garmin Oregon & Colorado Directions
This is specifically for a Garmin Oregon 400t, however it will likely work on all Colorado & Oregon units. Perhaps others too.
No programs needed, just save directly to the unit. Think of it as a hard drive.
1)When you plug it in... a file browser of the unit pops up to a folder called "Garmin". This isn't it look to the left and select "Garmin Oregon". Then you should see "Garmin" & "Wherigo"

or perhaps...
You may get a popup dialog in Vista. Deny to scan the device. Then you get a list of choices. Select the yellow folder "Open folder to view files". Then you should see "Garmin" & "Wherigo"

2) Click and open the "Garmin" folder, then click and open the "GPX" folder.
Here is where you save GPX files from HAZ and can also upload to HAZ.

HAZ to GPS Unit
1) Save file in the GPX folder (at this point it's live in the unit, continue for other options)
2) Navigate to "Track Manger"
3) Select Track, then you can "View Map", "Set Color" etc.

GPS Unit to HAZ
1) When you start your hike navigate to "Setup", select "Reset", reset trip data & clear current track
2) Hike
3) When you finish or between hikes navigate to "Track Manager", select "Current Track" then "Save Track", then back to step #1 and reset
4) Plug unit in to USB, on the HAZ GPS Upload page click "Browse" then navigate to the GPX folder, select file and upload

joe bartels wrote:I didn't have any problems. But I go from HAZ to GPS, not HAZ => Mapsource => GPS.

The more I try to figure-out what the problem is with my Garmin 60CSx track downloads from HAZ to the Mapsource Program to the GPS unit, the more confused I become. THE PROBLEM(s): Any HAZ GPS Route with track points of more than 500 points will not download correctly into my 60CSx Active Memory Log(ie, the download will truncate) unless I fool the unit by changing the name of the file in Mapsource to ACTIVE LOG..as per Sredman's below posts instructions). So, when I change the file name to ACTIVE LOG, all downloads correctly into my Garmin's Active Memory Log, but that download takes up valuable memory space in my Active Memory Log, so once I complete the download correctly from HAZ to the unit, I have been saving that gps route in my saved tracks section(it holds 20 different tracks at 500 points max each), once saved I clear the Active Memory Log to 0%.. this now gives me a fresh 0% start for the actual hike I am planning that is for the GPS Route I just downloaded from HAZ. Another problem is that when I move this track from the active memory log to the saved tracks section, the unit reduces the track points to be not more than 500 points. I do believe that all Garmin Models- Etrex, 76CSx, 60CS, & 60CSx have these issues when doing the above downloading of a GPS Route from HAZ to Mapsource to the GPS Unit. I don't know if this could still be an issue with the newer Garmin Colorado & Oregon units.. maybe they don't use the Garmin Mapsource 2008 TOPO Software like the others do and/or maybe Garmin fixed this problem in these newer models?

I had never tried to use the .GPX download option until trying today from your below instructions and I just can't figure out how to do it (I'm sure it is not a problem with your instructions, it's just me). When I plug-in my 60CSx to my computer and turn it on, there is no file browser of the unit pops up to a folder called "Garmin"..., nor do I get a popup dialog in Vista... Since I have the Mapsource 2008 TOPO Software loaded on my computer, maybe this is the reason I am not getting any signs of life(pop ups) from the .GPX option?

All this I have been able to work around and still download HAZ reference GPS Routes to my 60CSx and later upload my GPS routes to HAZ, but it pisses me off to have to live with hike tracks of not more than 500 points to download into my saved tracks option and later upload to HAZ. A good example of this problem is my upcoming trip in about a week to Wyoming where I will be spending 10 days hiking maybe as many as 8-9 different trail hikes, so I will need to save each days hike track in my 60CSx saved tracks option, then when I return back I am planning on hopefully doing some new HAZ-WY hike descriptions and posting the hike GPS Routes... which under the present constraints can be no larger than 500 track points each. Maybe only I worry about these kind of petty problems. I sure don't hear anyone else who has these above Garmin Models worrying about it. ;)

PS- I just noticed my new Grasshopper- Detailapelli
(Perfect, I like it!!)

nonot wrote:Hank, you may have to edit the track down to 500 points or less (300?) before uploading it to your GPS as a separate track. Or, split it into multiple tracks each less that 300/500 points.

Also, you can only have so many tracks/routes in a Garmin GPS at one time. This is why I switched over to creating a Garmin map rather than loading a bunch of individual tracks.

If you have the multi-gig chip in your unit (mine is a 60csx) should not Mapsource download the holistic route without error?

Also, MapSource appears to only allow me to open one gdb file at a time, as each time I open a file, the previously opened route file is removed from the display.

kingsnake wrote:Also, MapSource appears to only allow me to open one gdb file at a time, as each time I open a file, the previously opened route file is removed from the display.

You have to open MapSource twice, not just try to open two files at once. Having the app open twice allows cutting and pasting between, greatly increasing the functionality.

Thanx, but man, that is ugly. Lots of things Garmin could do to increase usability ...

kingsnake wrote:Thanx, but man, that is ugly. Lots of things Garmin could do to increase usability ...

On the other hand, can you point to something that works better? With multiple files open simultaneously, how would you distinguish between what's in each file in the display? How would you give the user confidence in saving one of the files that it has all the desired items and nothing undesired? It's a tricky problem. Making things from different files look different is visually distracting. Putting them on different display tabs defeats the purpose, since they can't be viewed simultaneously. Layers might help, but cutting and pasting between layers (or tabs) isn't functionally any different than cutting and pasting between different instantiations of MapSource.

kingsnake wrote:If you have the multi-gig chip in your unit (mine is a 60csx) should not Mapsource download the holistic route without error?

In your/our 60CSx, the routes download to the memory in the Garmin unit and not to the optional purchase multi-gig chip in your unit. Th maps are what download to the optional purchase multi-gig chip. In the unit's memory section, our unit will store up to 20 tracks at 500pts each or less. The hassle for me is needing to split many of the HAZ tracks to 500pts sections before download to the unit as many of the default HAZ hiking tracks are much more than 500pts total. The Garmin Etrex Vista works the same way. Garmin fixed this problem in their new 62 series which replaced our 60CSx. Our GPSjoe, SUN_HIKER, and John9L own this new model with mega-gig internal memory.