HikeArizona.COM

It's a start; I think the noise requirement is overly generous...

te-wa wrote:

Jeff MacE wrote:My $0.03

I call your 3 cents and raise you one... its a darn good thing we dont live in heavy snow, otherwise I could be sleeping in my squirrley little hammock and have a Snowmobile headed my way at 3 am doing 40-60 mph. Now that would not be fun..
my 4¢

Indeed, sir

Jeff MacE wrote:I guess I don't hike up in the Supes enough to rate a fair shake when it comes to my opinion.

As someone who has never hiked a foot in the Supes, this is my favorite quote in this whole discussion.

If the painted desert was my backyard I'd be blowing the Supes off, too ;)

azpride wrote:If the painted desert was my backyard I'd be blowing the Supes off, too ;)

pagerob, i think we all envy where you live when it comes to hiking trails...i don't think there's a better centrally located city than page for hiking!

azpride wrote:If the painted desert was my backyard I'd be blowing the Supes off, too ;)

I certainly try. It is interesting, in my experience at least, that the closest hikes are the ones I do the least (work related not included). There are several hikes within sight of my house that I still haven't done in 5 years of being up here, just because "I can do them any time." Meanwhile I plan (and do) hikes hundreds of miles and hours away. I need to get off my duff on the weekends I am not going someplace far off and just jot down to the Colorado on the Ropes, or head out to Birthday Arch.

PageRob wrote:

azpride wrote:If the painted desert was my backyard I'd be blowing the Supes off, too ;)

I certainly try. It is interesting, in my experience at least, that the closest hikes are the ones I do the least (work related not included). There are several hikes within sight of my house that I still haven't done in 5 years of being up here, just because "I can do them any time." Meanwhile I plan (and do) hikes hundreds of miles and hours away. I need to get off my duff on the weekends I am not going someplace far off and just jot down to the Colorado on the Ropes, or head out to Birthday Arch.

I always have a hard time justifying the drive for longer day hikes, myself. It's hard to think about getting back at 2230 because you had to drive four hours each way, etc...

azpride wrote:If the painted desert was my backyard I'd be blowing the Supes off, too ;)

Yes, well...that may be the case for many of us. That comment wasn't so much meant as a blanket insult as it was an observation, of sorts...

My statement was not intended to be a personal insult, and I apologize if it came across that way. I like this forum and enjoy reading the opinions of others as well as expressing my own. My view was that your comment seemed to indicate that you wished to lump a whole group of people together because your personal view of how public lands should be used is different from others (and the law), and I disagree with that sentiment. Unlike you, I have never driven a quad, so I don't have that experience to draw upon, I just know I see lots of people who enjoy it, some "responsibly" and some not so much. I try to respect the fact that public lands belong equally to those who wish to recreate revving an engine on a designated road just as much as they belong to those of us who prefer only the sound of trickling water and wind rustling through Aspen leaves. (I personally don't care for equestrian use of trails. Hoof prints and huge piles of crap don't enhance my trail use. But I recognize that they have as much right to the trail as I do.) I don't believe my right to enjoy Arizona's public lands eclipses the rights of anybody else because my personal preference is peace and solitude.

Irresponsible/illegal OHV users are a problem. I've also witnessed more than a few irresponsible hikers. Some folks cut switchbacks and cause environmental damage and hazards to hikers by not being mindful of the effects of their impact, while others don't carry out all that they carry in. Still others walk with pets off-leash and don't pick up their waste on the trail, while some throw rocks at or even kill snakes or other wildlife! But restricting an area from all hikers because of the faults of a few is not the best solution in my opinion. I believe the same is true for other users.

I definitely think that there should be areas designated as Wilderness, where I can hike without the interference of vehicles and their byproducts (can we ban equestrian use too?). But on land that is designated as multi-use I recognize that others have as much of a right to recreate there (within the law) as I do, even if their use is more impactful than mine.

I also recognize that OHV use has increased over the past two decades at a rate that has far exceeded the foresight of public land managers. Therefore, I believe things such as the new Travel Management Plan taking effect this year across all National Forests are very important. There is an established process for evaluating such plans, and the new plan was devised and implemented according to that process. The Plan is now complete and decided. I doubt anybody agrees with the all the implementations (I know I don't) but it is now the law we must all accept and abide by. Until the next time they revise the plan ... and our input can once again affect the policy.

We're on the same wavelength and I think we always have been. Discussions like this one are hard to have with thousands of miles of copper and optical fiber separating people.

Your points about inconsiderate hikers are also valid. I don't like laws nor do I expect that people will do the right thing out of fear of our criminal/statutory system. Instead, when I see people being goobers out on the trail I call them on their behavior. Am I perfect? Heck no, but I sure don't litter or shortcut switchbacks, hike through throngs of people in the nude, or drink myself blind and go annoy people out on the trail with my antics.

I know that some people ruin it for others I have witnessed it myself throughout my many years, but what are we going to do outlaw atvs all together. If you use the same logic we should outlaw hiking since it leaves an impact on the environment and some people abuse it by having fires and throwing trash that doesn't burn. Consequently we should also ban anyone from visiting indian ruins and visiting historic sites such as Reavis Ranch since simply walking in the area has an adverse impact. Also I don't mean to offend anyone we all must sometimes see things from the other side of the fence or we are doomed to conflict and closed mindedness.

I never suggested banning ATVs, nor would I ever support such a measure. Their riders keep my trauma center full and funded...just kidding.

Seriously, they have their place. I owned one years back but it was street legal and only went on signed trails. It was fun for about ten minutes. There are plenty of places for people to ride them, they needn't destroy more land wantonly. The comparison between the off-road and hiking crowd is instructive, actually. I belong to both. So do many on this site. No one of us would be honest if we stated that we have seen anything even orders of magnitude close to the destruction that the off-road crowd causes out of hiker analogs...