HikeArizona.COM

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/10 ... cials?lite

azbackpackr wrote:

Sredfield wrote:You can't fix stupid.

Um, didn't I just say that?

That's because stupid isn't broken. It's the normal state of affairs. Deviations from this condition create rifts in the fabric of space-time. The forces of nature fight to restore the status quo, which can be delayed only through the sustained coordinated effort of those not afflicted. Sometimes even that isn't enough.

Ok let me do my best Jim H soap box impression...just kidding Jim ;)

Do these guys really deserve jail time? Lets put emotions aside for one moment and look at it purely from a legal and more logical perspective. The main goals/mission statements of any prosecutor's office, sheriff's office, etc is going to be something on the lines of to deter crime, prevent, apprehend, prosecute, rehabilitate. Well if these men after paying some hefty fines, being publicly humiliated for six months, and perhaps serving some probation never topple over another million year old rock formation, than from a strictly legal and logical perspective the justice system worked right? (put your love for the outdoors aside) If you have a lapse in judgement and drive impaired most punishments are severe enough to make most never commit that act again, and its hailed as a success for the legal system. I think jail time would qualify as an excessive punishment for this crime and remember our Bill of Rights protects us from excessive fines, bails and cruel and unusual punishments.

This will get me crucified, however, this was ultimately a victim less crime and the appropriate punishment is probably something on the lines of restitution to the state, although, I could not tell you how to come up with that number. Will sending two presumably working fathers and husbands to jail really bring any further closure to this ordeal for us, other than satisfy our emotional connections to the case? These men were for lack of a better word probably "country bumpkins" and although ignorance is not an excuse for breaking the law..Did they topple that rock with pure "criminal" intent? Was it premeditated? Were they even aware that it was against the law? Now if it is proven that they planned to topple this rock from the start, knew it was illegal and still did it, then by all means throw them in jail.

However, if you look at it for what it was, an ignorant spontaneous act of stupidity, it probably does not warrant jail time. As disgusted as most of us were by the act, if these men learn from the incident, never do it again, then we must accept the fact that the legal system worked to its intended purpose..The legal system is obviously meant to be punitive, however, its underlying theme is also crime deterrence and rehabilitation..if these men never do it again, then they are rehabilitated and if others don't commit the same act because of watching this case unfold then the punishment can is certainly appropriate yet still devoid of jail time..

Disclaimer: I am pretty much indifferent to the whole issue, because it does not really impact my daily life, however, its nice to apply some Socratic reasoning to something like this...

@friendofThundergod
Yeah, makes sense to me! It may be different, for example, when the same type of country bumpkin for which Utah is infamous is caught stealing Anasazi pots on public land and selling them. Everyone in Utah knows that pot thieving is a felony, and that they are risking big fines and prison time if they do it. They do it anyway, if they think they won't get caught, but they KNOW it's a crime.

friendofThundergod wrote:nice to apply some Socratic reasoning to something like this...

"All we are is dust in the wind" dude.

( 2018-08-28 dead link removed )
( such a great video... )

@azbackpackr
Lol fair enough fair enough, hey but is Utah really know for country bumpkins? Seriously I am from Midwest but I hear that a lot, I'm going to start calling Utah the Kentucky of the west

@BobP

Every State has it's country bumpkins, Arizona included, but one thing that Utah has that no other State has is concerned citizens that massively turn out to help others. Following is a case in point from a previous posting of mine and I quote:

"In Utah we have a citizen organization to come to the aid of County searches. All the Sheriff has to do is pick up the phone and make the call. In July of 2005 we had an eleven year old Boy Scout go missing at a Boy Scout Camp in the Unita Mountains at 5:30 PM on a Friday afternoon. The Summit County Sheriff's office set up their base camp that evening and requested the help of other Counties within Utah to assist which they did.

The Bardsley Foundation was also called and Saturday morning they set up their base camp approximately a half mile further up the road. By noon on that Saturday there were 3,000 volunteers that had been processed and sent out from that base camp. By noon on Sunday there were 5,000 volunteers that had been processed and sent out from that base camp. They were led by qualified individuals with GPS units searching grids using UTM coordinates which were downloaded onto laptops when they returned from their respected searches.

This continued until Tuesday around noon when the boy was found alive after climbing and hiking over a very difficult mountain ridge that the County Sheriff's search organization said he would not and could not go over. He was five and a half miles away and out of the search parameter that the County Sheriff's search organization had set up for that day.

We need a similar citizen's organization and particularly here in the greater Phoenix area to assist in saving the lives of those who venture into the desert and mountains of Arizona."

End of quote.

We will always have country bumpkins but let's not condemn an entire States population because of them.

@BobP
I forgot all about those two guys...

@SuperstitionGuy

"End of quote"

you mean end of dissertation and defense.. ;)

friendofThundergod wrote:@BobP
I forgot all about those two guys...

And you call yourself a history teacher

I'm a firm believer in karma.....

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-WVvQCn89Q-s/U ... Stone+on+O