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I have already sent a PM to the most obvious person on HAZ for info in this area, but thought I would get a couple opinions before everyone heads out for the weekend..found tons of photo-sets for these areas, but most descriptions are still a little incomplete..

Here it is Canyon cancelled, still too much snow along Ash Creek, so planning on the fly, any information about the following would be appreciated..so here is a very tentative, and yes atrociously long loop I was thinking for an over night trip and first trip to Mazatzals..

I want to utilize the Verde River Trail #11 and I am thinking about starting at the TH near Dead Man Mesa or the TH near Twin Buttes (which I hear devolves into a pretty rough road from description, so might have to park further from TH and walk in)

so plan would be Trail #17 (Dead Man Mesa Trail) to trail #11 Verde River Trail, from here I know I have obvious out and back options, but I would love to try and make a loop of it, the best loop I am seeing is..from Verde River Trail it looks like one can take the High Water Trail #20 to #269 (West Bottom) to #34 Bull Springs Trail back up to Trail #14 (Saddle Ridge Trail) and then make my way towards where ever I choose to go in TH near Twin Buttes or Dead Man Mesa..I know miles will be long and tons of AEG, my biggest concern though is following trails, are they bushwhacks? have they been abandoned for 20 years? or just way to ambitious? etc..I also read a few trip-logs that say the miles are way to low listed on FS page..I don't mind a couple 15-19 mile days, not trying to do a 30 mile hike out on day two though..

Finally, I see you can make a nice little lolipop loop with an and out and back using the Verde River Trail, High Water Trail, West Bottom back to south end of Verde Trail..seems to be a more tame first time hike, and way less miles..Alternatively, I see some people start the Verde Trail from South, but I hear this is a 45 mile plus trip by back roads, is that true?

any suggestions for these areas would be great, in particular, some insider tips on getting to these THs...also if anyone wants to come, we can call it an event..very early Sunday or even Sat night to Monday...but don't plan on putting as official event..

one last quick question..anyone know if they do a Green Trails Map for this area?

mazatzal wrote:We day hiked Barnhardt to Sandy Saddle junction Nov 25, 2004 (Thanksgiving day). I wonder if we saw each other ;)

We were close. I think that picture was taken Nov. 20. I had to get back to Phoenix to cook for Thanksgiving.

friendofThundergod wrote:I feel cheated to have never seen Mazzies pre-fire. I forget where I read it or maybe it was a HAZ person on forum, but I guess they say that ecosystem was so fragile that some parts of Mazzies may never again see pine trees, due to changing climate other factors ect

It's sad that you never saw it. I didn't know how extensively it had burned and hoped to show her one of my favorite views in AZ: that moment when you round the corner through the manzanitas and see a lush valley of ponderosas. There was no organic horizon left in the soil, even before the last of it washed away. It was thoroughly burned. I can well imagine that thousands of years will pass before the soil can support anything like what was there before. I'm still tempted to go back and see for myself. I try to extrapolate from posted photos what that area looks like now. When I first visited, Barnhardt was reputed to be the most popular TH in AZ. Visitation appears to be on the upswing, but I get the impression that not many people go beyond Sandy Saddle anymore.

@friendofThundergod
@mazatzal

sounds good...stay at Chilson Camp and do serious recon out to Club Cabin

@big_load

I try to extrapolate from posted photos what that area looks like now

I have a photoset (pre-HAZ) from 2 months before the fire that I feel lucky to have. That's why we went back after the fire to see the difference and see if we could still follow the trail. Lots of nuke pics like the one you posted from the post fire trip.

friendofThundergod wrote:I would also like to get a warm fuzzy on where that Rock Creek Trail comes out as well

Do you mean where it meets the MDT? It doesn't. Gotta bushwhack to find it around halfway up the ridge, and even then it's so overgrown it's a total bear to hike. I did it a year and a half ago and the entire trail was a beast. It was harder to hike it downhill than hiking it uphill 2 years prior. There is a spring nearby where it meets the MDT, so if you're determined to try it, if you find you're hiking in a marshy, muddy area, that's it.

Yes, that's Hopi Spring. The spring is up the hill a bit from MDT.

I just did the rock creek/barnhardt loop today. The top half of RC is really over grown and difficult to follow. Trail is faint and intermittent past the falls to MDT. Hopi springs had light flow but the switchbacks coming down are thick with manzanita.

Time for another Mazzie run fellas...

Can anyone give me an idea of reliable water along the following route: Half Moon to Rock Creek to Mazzie Divide to the "park?" I believe horse camp seep and another spring close to park has been mentioned, but not sure on reliability. Cautiously optimistic about finding standing water in some drainages, but would really like to get an idea about anything more concrete..thanks

@friendofThundergod
Just FYI - Per the checking in email Kathy sent they (Karl and Kathy and a friend of their's) are heading out this AM to do AZT 23 and 24 via BP via Peeley with one car at Doll Baby TH. They are planning on Chilson tonite.

@friendofThundergod
There will be water at Horse Camp or nearby. The Park is a drier area 3+ miles north of the Rock Creek/Divide junction but just west of the Park there is a drainage that contains Pete's Pond.
http://hikearizona.com/t2011/06/21/1487 ... 737-03.jpg

@mazatzal
Thanks, got a link to route or long lat?

@friendofThundergod
A little research goes a long way. Looks like Wet Bottom Creek may have a few areas of surface water (depending on season).
http://hikearizona.com/photoset=15769
http://hikearizona.com/map.php?MY=9297&M=6

Pete:
http://hikearizona.com/map.php?QX=3612

@chumley
thanks, was on phone, limited search capabilities ;)

@friendofThundergod
You should consider moving to a school district with computers. ;)

@chumley
Or better yet, teach the little buggers to do research for you

friendofThundergod wrote:Half Moon to Rock Creek to Mazzie Divide to the "park?"

You might want to forgo the Half Moon and just start at Rock Creek. It's not a bad drive to the Rock Creek Trailhead. Half moon is a beast. Shoulder height catclaw. Ask Joe, Wally and Denny. or read our triplogs.

Bloodbath in 2008. Someone mentioned it's better now, it certainly couldn't be worse.

@Darth Stiller
I think it has improved or a matter of personal perspective...

Half Moon was the only section of this hike I hadn't done before and it wasn't as overgrown as I had expected. The bushwacking was pretty minimal.

http://hikearizona.com/photo=324852

Yeah probably no different. That photo shows how it can be bad if the trail is missed. More of a luck of the draw like Upper Spencer. Win some, bleed on some.

@joe bartels
Ya I figured you and the gang were probably off trail all day and did not even notice ;)

Did touch base with Carl though, said not as bad as previous reports..who knows with all this rain though