HikeArizona.COM

Looks like the temporary reprieve that the state parks got is going to vanish again. State legislators are planning on shutting all state parks and slashing pay for all state employees (does that include the legislators as well?) in order to save money. Never mind that the state treasurer said that the state could lay off every single state employee and still be in the hole, but oh well.
No much of a person to get on a political rant, but I feel that our legislature over the past decade or so has generally done us a terrible disservice, and their current behavior is right in line with that. Why not let the voters decide themselves if they want a sales tax increase? Uh oh, the uninformed masses might do something that goes ideologically against what you like. Guess what? The public should get the final word, not you. So irritated this morning.

It's Wall Street and the money-hungry elite that are "Sucking us dry."

I dunno...he didn't mention anything about how cats are generally shot on sight in Texas...

rally_toad wrote:

writelots wrote:Does this only apply to people who own "cats", as in plural?

Vaporman, I propose that mexicans have nothing to do with it, unless you find some statistics or evidence that mexicans have more cats per capita compared with the rest of America.

They did, but then they opened Filibertos! ;)

I didn't realize that The Lost Dutchman was targeted in the closures... I'm going to see if I can get to the Feb 1st meeting... :O

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/ ... sures.html

Ariz. officials propose closing 13 state parks
by Casey Newton - Jan. 11, 2010 06:16 PM
The Arizona Republic

Fewer than one third of Arizona's state parks and recreation areas will remain open after June 3 under staff recommendations released Monday.

The recommendations, which will be considered by the Arizona State Parks Board on Friday morning, call for the closure of 13 parks between February and June. Three other parks already have closed because of budget cuts
, and other lands under parks control have either never opened or have been transferred to community control.

If approved by the parks board, the state would close Fort Verde, Homolovi Ruins, Lyman Lake and Riordan Mansion state parks on Feb. 22.
Roper Lake, Tombstone Courthouse, Tubac Presidio and Yuma Territorial Prison would follow on March 29.

The closures would conclude on June 3 with the shuttering of Alamo Lake, Lost Dutchman, Picacho Peak, Red Rock and Tonto Natural Bridge state parks.

The state parks selected to remain open are the ones that generate revenue: Buckskin Mountain, Catalina, Cattail Cove, Dead Horse Ranch, Fool Hollow Lake, Kartchner Caverns, Lake Havasu, Patagonia Lake, and Slide Rock.

But even those will close unless the parks system gets a $3 million infusion of cash before the end of the fiscal year, said Renee Bahl, the parks director.

Parks officials hope that money will come in the form of a loan from the state's General Fund, which will be repaid as the parks generate revenue.

Bahl said deep budget cuts to her agency have left her staff with no other choice but to recommend the closures.

Bahl noted that last year parks contributed $25 million to the General Fund, even though parks themselves receive no General Fund dollars. A Northern Arizona University study found that the parks generated $266 million annually in economic activity for rural communities.

"We're important to the economy," Bahl said. "We're important to the people right now. Folks can't afford to do much these days, and parks are one affordable luxury that we want to keep open."

allanalxndr wrote:

rally_toad wrote:

writelots wrote:Does this only apply to people who own "cats", as in plural?

Vaporman, I propose that mexicans have nothing to do with it, unless you find some statistics or evidence that mexicans have more cats per capita compared with the rest of America.

They did, but then they opened Filibertos! ;)

Zing!

I love Filibertos. :GB:

Filibertos is good but Juliobertos takes the nod

AJ committed money to keeping LDSP open. Just like Payson committed money to Tonto Bridge. It's all about getting publicity to get money.

Makes me wonder if that's why they drop programs they know others will bail them out on and hopefully forget.

LDSP, Picacho & Tonto Bridge seem to high on the list of usability to close.

I could do without LDSP, really all its just a trailhead that charges a fee, most of us just parked 1/2 mile down the road to avoid that charge anyway.
I'd really be bummed if Picacho closes though, I love that hike.

I doubt many avid hikers are concerned about most State Parks for their own good. You can park a half mile from Picacho too.

joe bartels wrote:You can park a half mile from Picacho too.

But the hike to Picacho Peak would be in the state park (which would be closed), and the hike to flatiron or other destinations in the supes would be entirely in the Tonto NF and the Superstition wilderness.

You could park a half mile from picacho but it would technically be illegal right? Except Im sure with the budget cuts it is unlikely they will have anyone patrolling.

Yes I think the LDSP had $1000 or so penalty signs up the last time it closed. So Picacho is probably out legally. The fines are all a joke. The mountain bikers that got caught in the Grand Canyon even with drugs on them were only fined $250-500 each. That one lady burned the entire forest years ago and got a slap on the wrist. Personally I'd just like to have these places for families and tourist to enjoy as opposed to increasing the meth town factor. Like you say if they can't run it I'm suspect on the ability to patrol it.

Re: Lyman Lake. I have heard that if they closed the park facilities that the lake might still be open for fishing or boating. Supposedly the lake itself is owned by Game and Fish or other entity. Not sure how that would be accomplished since the boat ramps are in the park. Really great petroglyphs on the other side of the lake, would make a nice kayaking/hiking day trip.

I will try to find out from someone I know at Game and Fish if this is true.

Some places, such as Homolovi, are going to be in deep trouble if they close. I can just see all the looters from Winslow coming out and digging. Before it got state protection it was being dug by dozers and backhoes - and it is within view of town. I don't want that to happen again.

rally_toad wrote:You seriously believe that Vaporman?? Mexicans??!! Lets look at all the other states that are having problems, and many of them do not border mexico. However, all of them contain people who own cats.
I say if we get rid of the cats, we get rid of the budget crisis!!

Chumley was pointing out how CA & AZ have different ideological backgrounds but are in the same economic situation and I was just pointing out an obvious problem we both share. There's other common denominators at work as well like bad legislation and fraud. Any time a gov't has some program to give away free money, there's always going to be someone who finds a way to illegally recieve it. So no, Mexicans aren't the only problem but they definitely are not part of the solution... And no I'm not saying that because I'm racist, my boss is of Mexican descent but is very much American while some of our customers are fresh from the border Mexicans. They're not bad people, but getting paid under the table w/o taxes, sending much of it down south, getting free medical from the hospitals, free education for their kids that don't speak any English & bogging down the poor teachers, doing hit & runs on Americans because if they stop they'll get deported, and a certain percentage bring a nasty criminal element with them esp the Coyotes and the Mexican drug cartels. I'm just down on the front lines making my own observations and reading the local news. Something you're probably not seeing from that liberal college campus, but you still have plenty of time for learning esp when you get a job in the real world.

I love how you ignore everything else that has been said on this topic by others and attack my comment from almost a month ago..... :roll:

joe bartels wrote:I doubt many avid hikers are concerned about most State Parks for their own good. You can park a half mile from Picacho too.

I'm more concerned with the proximity of Picacho to a number of communities rife with "undesirables." That place needs *more* law enforcement and supervision, not less...

Vaporman wrote:I love how you ignore everything else that has been said on this topic by others and attack my comment from almost a month ago.....

I would have commented earlier if I had been reading the forum. But it was not an attack, I was merely letting you know what I think the common denominator is.... cats.

joe bartels wrote:I doubt many avid hikers are concerned about most State Parks for their own good.

I'm concerned about Homolovi mostly, when it comes down to it Homolovi is probably one of the most significant state parks we have. If the do end up closing it one hopes that they can have people patrolling it everyday to prevent looting and vandalism. Especially with the close proximity to Winslow.

I have many acquaintances involved with Homolovi, and I actually gave a talk (on W. AZ rock art) at the park in July to the local chapter of AAS. One of that chapter's members will be here in Springerville on the evening of MLK day to talk about petroglyphs in that area, so if any of you are done skiing or whatever, it will be at Spr. town hall at 6:30 or so. We eat at Java Blues first.

Anyway I plan to pick her brain to find out if the AAS Homolovi chapter, plus the Site Stewards are planning any volunteer action regarding protection of Homolovi. It really is out there in the flats, and right near town, and there is no way to protect it other than with some kind of security guards and/or law enforcement.

As for Lyman, so far I have found out that the water in the lake is owned by St. Johns Irrigation District. My co-workers say that likely I could carry my kayak to the lake from a nearby subdivision and go paddle without being noticed. Not sure if that will be illegal or not. Kind of hard to do a "stealth paddle" in a bright blue kayak in the middle of a brown lake!

azbackpackr wrote: It really is out there in the flats, and right near town, and there is no way to protect it other than with some kind of security guards and/or law enforcement.

The only folks in the state's arsenal to do it are DPS and they are getting cut, as well.

Jeff MacE wrote:

azbackpackr wrote: It really is out there in the flats, and right near town, and there is no way to protect it other than with some kind of security guards and/or law enforcement.

The only folks in the state's arsenal to do it are DPS and they are getting cut, as well.

I suppose we could organize some sort of volunteer protection posse. The Arizona Archeology Irregulars?