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When Governor Brewer signs this into law, can anyone see some unintended consequences? For those who don't know, this law will allow law enforcement officials to require anyone they come into contact with to prove that they are legally allowed to be in this country whether as a citizen or guest. For the record a valid driver's license is NOT considered proof-of-citizenship. Does this mean that those of us who appear as if we might be foreign have to carry around our birth certificates?
I'm not that worried about myself because I'm a 6'4" white dude, but then I remember reading about 80-year-old nuns being strip-searched by airport security.
As for hiking, I always carry my wallet with me because I'd rather risk losing it on the trail than having it stolen out of my car. But I'm not about to carry my birth certificate around. Anyhoo, this law will probably be struck down by the courts.

It also would have been nice to see one or two non-white-males standing on the podium while she was announcing her decision. Just sayin.

chumley wrote:In watching the protestors marching and gathering near the capitol, I believe it would go over a little better in getting people to agree with you or understand your viewpoint if you did not wave Mexican flags.

Agreed. My wife and I came to the same conclusion watching the footage - and she is Latina.

What are people saying in these places: http://edrp.arid.arizona.edu/tribes.html ? I can't imagine it goes over too well there.

Many students from Metro Tech (about 2 blocks from my house) staged a huge protest march going down Thomas from 19th to 15th Ave. this morning. Gotta love it when our fair state makes the national news....

I can feel it now, tax dollars will be wasted on court costs to appease a political wing.

I'm pretty sick and tired of losing my rights because others are so paranoid about their wallets. Creating a law asserting that someone walking down the street is guilty until proven innocent is an atrocity. Don't be slaves for a nickel and a dime.

"They came first for the Communists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist. Then they came for the Jews, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist. Then they came for me and by that time no one was left to speak up."

also, check out Mayor Gordon's column in the Washington Post
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... ailarticle

I have already advised my wife to make sure she always carries her green card with her at all times in case she's pulled over. I'm not worried that this will amount to anything for us, but it's still a shame that paranoia, intolerance and xenophobia contribute enough to make a difference. but i knew what I was in for when I moved here.

Tough_Boots wrote:also, check out Mayor Gordon's column in the Washington Post
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... ailarticle

BRAVO Mayor!

Rasmussen is a well-respected polling firm. I was surprised to see these results. I'm guessing the voice of the majority is not nearly as loud.

A new Rasmussen Reports telephone survey finds that 70% of likely voters in Arizona approve of the legislation, while just 23% oppose it.
Opponents of the measure, including major national Hispanic groups, say it will lead to racial profiling, and 53% of voters in the state are concerned that efforts to identify and deport illegal immigrants also will end up violating the civil rights of some U.S. citizens. Forty-six percent (46%) don’t share that concern
Those figures include 23% who are very concerned and 18% who are not at all concerned.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_ ... mmigration

How are telephone surveys at all accurate anymore? Who has a landline except for nuclear families? Who actually participates in phone surveys other than bored housewives? How many AZ citizens like myself only use cellphones? (mine's not even an AZ number)

For that matter, who actually is registered and goes to vote? If all the people over 18 were registered and actually went to the polls, especially for mid-term elections, I assure you we would have a very different legislature.

In some countries, it is against the law to not vote in elections.

I for one wish fewer people would vote. Lets face it. People who vote during the "off" elections tend to know the issues that they're voting for. During presidential elections lots of people show up because they think they should, or MTV got the vote out (or something). Often, these folks don't have a clue what they're voting for. Don't dilute my vote with your ignorance. Stay home if you don't know what/who you're voting for.

Not voting can in effect be a type of vote.

Well, you guys have a good point there.

I for one do not vote. Don't really know why, but have never voted before. There for I don't vote, I don't have the right to bitch and complain about our gov. I have been in the construction feild for over 15 years and I have seen just as much white usless workers as I have seen mexican. Most mexicans I know work harder than most everybody else. Allthough, I have noticed that more and more mexicans are asking for higher wages. Back in the mid 90"s, there were not that many mexicans working tradesman jobs. They were mostly labores. But now, there are many more mexican tradesman that are asking for higher wages. Instead of working for $9 or $10/hr, they want what a white person would do the job for, $13 or $14/hr. I care if someone from another country wants to come here to make a better life for themselves. Hell, people have been doing since the begining fo time. Just do it legally, and learn the language. I wouldn't move to Mexico if I didn't know spanish. My father, that I don't talk to too often, is a racist. I was raised that way and when my parents got a divorce my mom taught me a different way. Now I cannot stand racisim. Thank you Mom.

kevinweitzel75 wrote:Just do it legally, and learn the language.

One of the beautiful things about America is not having a national language. I actually feel like a jerk when I go to certain places in Arizona and don't know Spanish. I guess I just don't believe everyone has to conform to make my life more convenient.

I agree. Go ahead and take some Spanish (or German or Japanese, etc.) classes yourself and see how hard it is to learn a language. Mexicans are not all a lump, they are different individuals. Some have received a good education in Mexico, but most have not. So, many of them are very uneducated and are not predisposed to educational learning. Ask them and see, some of them are barely even able to read and write in Spanish. Some do have a natural aptitude for learning languages, just like some Americans do. So they will just pick up street English over the years and get pretty good at it. Others will not, because maybe they don't have an aptitude for learning a language. Some will do better at classroom English classes than others, also.

I am a very literate person, and I have studied Spanish, starting in the 7th grade, and have 26 college credits in Spanish, and I still do not speak it very well at all. Which is why I want to move to Costa Rica for a year, after I finish college. It is a goal of mine--to attain some level of fluency. It takes a lot of time to learn a language well, even if you have taken all the classes. You then have to go out and practice it a lot.

There is one thing that would change Mexico, and that is if the Mexican government made sure that all children receive a good education through high school. If the Mexican people in general were better educated it would change their country from the inside. This has been done in other previously 3rd world countries, and will eventually help turn the economy around, but it takes a whole generation for it to start to show. Also birth control...they produce more people than they can support.

azbackpackr wrote:There is one thing that would change Mexico, and that is if the Mexican government made sure that all children receive a good education through high school. If the Mexican people in general were better educated it would change their country from the inside.

There is no incentive for this, as those who are willing can go "over the border" and get a "quality" education up here in America. We serve as Mexico's safety valve. People that don't like the conditions in Mexico don't stick around, and those that are able to profit on the situation in Mexico like it that was just fine - they can keep doing what they do. Right now it works out good for the cartels and upper class in Mexico, but the lower and middle class folks aren't doing so great - either caught in the crossfire or risking their lives with coyotes and maybe sold into bondage to cross the border.
If we are serious about stopping the flow of illegal immigrants into America, we need to do two things - reduce the demand for people wanting to come across, and reduce the number of people wanting to cross. There are solutions to these on both sides of the border.

Liz, I totally agree with the education in Mexico. That would change alot.