Thoreau wrote:Jim Lyding wrote:A couple of points:
*I was in downtown Phoenix today, and I couldn't help but notice that EVERY government building has a "no weapons" sign on public entrances. Our state government has done about everything in its power to allow people to carry guns, concealed or otherwise, anywhere other than places where the owner doesn't want them. Of course this includes every public government building. Somewhat ironic if you ask me.
I call it something else entirely, although it shares the same last 5 letters and starts with "mo." =)
Jim Lyding wrote:*Why do we have to license our dogs, but not our guns? I own 12 guns, and am more than willing to register every single one of them. What is the problem with registering a gun? Are people so paranoid as to think that the government is going to take their guns away? I'm not worried in the least about the gub'mint confiscating my firearms, but I most certainly am worried about complete idiots and violent (un-convicted) criminals being able to easily acquire all sorts of deadly weapons. I'm also very worried about people who are paranoid enough to think that the government is going to take away their guns being allowed to possess firearms because those people are obviously unhinged.
In order: Our dogs are not god-given, constitutionally protected rights. Firearms are.
The Constitution was not given to us by God. Wether you're worried about the government having a registration list or not, or showing up with the evil black helicopters isn't really relevant so much as the fact that there is no NEED or REASON for them to have that data. Crimes are very seldom committed with a gun registered under the name of said criminal. Also, you state that you're worried about, for example, 'violent (un-convicted) criminals' being able to get guns.
You're missing my point. Don't you think that we would reduce gun-driven crime if every gun purchased had to be registered? I.e. getting rid of the loopholes that allow people like Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris from buying guns at gunshows w/out registering them? How exactly does registering prevent that? If the crime hasn't been convicted, first and foremost, they are INNOCENT by law. Second, you can't take away protected rights until such conviction. Once they DO have a record, then they are no longer able to walk into Wal-Mart or Scottsdale Gun Club and buy a gun since the NICS check will bounce them. They will, get this, go shopping in some dark alley and put the black market to use for them. How is that gun registration helping here?
Because it would then be obvious to law enforcement that anyone carrying an un-registered gun is most likely someone with something to hide. Ask a law enforcement officer from the East Coast. It's not about going after law-abiding citizens (because law-abiding citizens in more enlightened states have to register their firearms), but rather a tool to take down criminals.
Jim Lyding wrote:*I have a hard time believing that our state legislature has passed all of these laws that ease gun control out of a sincere desire to improve the safety of our citizenry. It seems obvious to me that these laws were passed due to ideological fervor and the desire to cater to the whims of the NRA.
I'd say these laws were passed (rather, past laws have been removed) in order to restore freedoms that have been guaranteed to us by our founding fathers. You don't NEED the excuse of "it's for safety" when the simple fact of the matter is that the infringing laws were unconstitutional to begin with.
Gun restrictions in other states have largely been upheld over and over. Don't get me wrong: I love being able to possess firearms. However, I feel that it is in the best interest of our citizens for there to be at least SOME restrictions.
Jim Lyding wrote:*I threw away my lifetime NRA membership years ago when it became obvious to me that many of their stances are contrary to the public good. The NRA views any and all restrictions on firearm ownership (i.e. anything less than a howitzer) as the first step towards banning all firearms. This is the same as arguing that speed limits are the first step towards the banning of automobiles.
I stopped paying for mine because they are mainly a gutless freak show, save for a few good (GREAT) apples such as our own Buz Mills and the classic Ted Nugent. The NRA has fallen victim to DC politics to a great extent. Instead, my money goes to the Arizona Citizen's Defense League (azcdl.org.) Believe it or not, the NRA had virtually NOTHING to do with any of the laws that have passed in the last year in AZ, and the AZCDL had *EVERYTHING* to do with them.
Thanks to them, in the last year or two alone, we have
* lost the restrictions on self-defense simply because a restaurant sells alcohol
Of course every bar/restaurant I've patronized since then has a "No Firearms Allowed" sign on the front door
* clarified what an 'official' sign should be and where it should be located to be seen to allow business serving alcohol to ban firearms on their property)
* Regained the right to store our own firearms in our own vehicles while on private property (ie, at work) which also kinda restored our right to self defense during commutes
* enacted defensive display laws so that actually firing isn' the FIRST legal resort anymore
* Finally made a person innocent until proven guilty in a self-defense shooting incident (a la Harold Fish)
* Told the Fed to shove it when it comes to firearm regulation when the interstate commerce clause doesn't grant them authority
* strengthened state preemption and parks-carry
* explicitly banned any form of gun registration by the state/local government
* removed the government permission slip to be able to wear a jacket while carrying a gun (the law that is the main subject of this thread)
And a heck of a lot more. So yeah, I agree, the NRA is pretty useless, especially compared to the local forces at work who actually care about our rights =)
allanalxndr wrote:I plan on renewing mine and obtain the UT or FL permit for the states that have dropped or will drop AZ because of our new laws.
I can't imagine any actual reason for states to drop reciprocity with AZ over this new law since it doesn't change the CCW permit , save for adding more options for training for the permit. Of course, I understand that the reason Nevada doesn't recognize our permit is simply because we don't have a photo on it. Heh, gotta love it =)
For the record, based on CURRENT reciprocity data, getting the Utah permit would only add Washington and Minnesota, while the Florida permit would add in Washington as well. (my source
http://www.usacarry.com/concealed_carry ... _maps.html)
Just something to keep in mind when it comes to paying for those other permits and any requirements they may have.
No one ever capitalizes Soldier, either!!