HikeArizona.COM

Originally titled "Death by Mohave", updated to snake in light of new info

I have a question. A man at my husband's work was bitten by a Mojave Green Rattlesnake. Apparently he pulled off the road near Fontana (Lytle Creek area) to use his cell phone. He stepped out of his work van right onto a snake. The snake bit him twice on the leg. It took him about 10 minutes to flag down another motorist. He drove himself to the hospital and the other motorist followed to assure he got there safely. The doctor believed the snake bite to be that of a Mojave Rattlesnake due to the speed that the neurotoxin attacked. The doctor said that he'd never seen venom attack in the manner that it did. At some point after he reached the hospital, he had a heart attack (he is approx 48 to 50 years of age and he'd already had another heart attack a few years earlier). He was given the antivenom and it is speculated that he had an adverse reaction to it. I don't know all the specifics, but he ended up going into respiratory failure and being put on life support. He must have had irreparable damage with no hope because he was removed from life support a day or so later and he died.

Would it have helped if he had tied his leg above the bite to stop the travel of the venom through his bloodstream? Is there any more specific or immediate first aid that can be administered for a Mojave Rattlesnake bite. From what I have read, there doesn't seem to be a lot that can be done except to stay calm, treat for shock and seek medical help.

My husband as well as several at his work are in shock. This was sudden and unexpected. The general consensus is that one shouldn't die from a snake bite. They are trying to find answers and understand what happened.

I don't mind if this message is posted or if the answer shows up in a public area...

Hi Lisa,

My initial thought is he did everything correct. Sounds like he was just one of the small percentages to not accept the venom. Tag in his previous heart issues & it's sad but I don't believe it's a mystery or unbelievable.

My second thought is Rattlers don't usually bite unless provoked. Stepping on one out of a truck is flat out bad luck. I believe the snake needs to coil first. As he drove up the snake probably coiled and when he stepped out it was just unfortunate. Either that snake lost his rattler in a species fight or the man's window was up and he had no forewarning.

It's unfortunate he encountered that mean monster. They are the deadliest! I've seen countless diamondbacks but only a few mohaves. Personally, I've stepped on a Diamondback & was extremely lucky. It was crossing a trail after sunset. I didn't see it and figure it must not have expected me. My friend was behind me and yelled. I jumped and ran before the snake had a chance to coil.

I'll add this to the HAZ-Forum. My thoughts go out to his family & co-workers.

What a tragedy indeed. I concur with Joe's thoughts. You may want to contact the Arizona Poison Control Center and speak to a man name Jude McNally. He is the resident expert on venomous creatures. I have heard him speak. Here is a link to some of his information
http://www.pharmacy.arizona.edu/centers ... akes.shtml

My parents told me about someone they knew in Sierra Vista, AZ that died from a rattle snake bite about 9 months ago. He was the owner of the Mesquite Tree restaurant for anyone familiar with the area. It was a small (baby) rattler in his garage that he picked up by the tale to get it out (didn't know it was a rattler?). The snake bit him, he goes to the hospital, gets the anti-venom and dies! I believe the consensous is that he had an adverse reaction to the anti-venom...makes you wonder.

el twisto...

-------------------------------------------------
Lisa writes,

Thank you for your response.

The latest speculation regarding the snake bite is that he may have been bitten by a Southern Pacific rattlesnake due to the location. He was about 500 feet away from his van and thought he had stepped on a stick or log. When he arrived at the hospital, he was conscious but later developed neurological problems. "He suffered numerous strokes due to a condition called disseminated intravascular coagulation."

Apparently the Southern Pacific rattlesnake produces two types of venom. It sounds just as dangerous as the Mojave Green rattlesnake. Although tragic, I can't bring myself to think of these snakes as monsters.

For anyone interested, there is an article with more information at http://www.dailybulletin.com or http://www.sbsun.com. Search with key words, "Ross Cooke", date range May 7, 2003 thru May 21, 2003, all newspapers.

Rattlesnakes do NOT need to coil in order to strike. If you are unfortunate enough to step anywhere behind the center point of the length of the snake it will double back on itself and attempt to bite. The speed of that action is a heck of a lot slower than a coiled strike, which is so fast it is almost invisible to the eye....if you realize you have stepped on one before it trys to bite, adrenalin will kick in and vertical you will go.....
I used to have a foreman a long time ago when I worked a the Bagdad Coppermine. He would grab them by the tail, big ones!! He told me the trick was to keep them moving as you held them, then they didn't have the strength to double back on themselves......yea right, the trick is to not be an idiot and grab one in the first place!!
People have different metabolisms, people react differently to venoms of any kind. Scorpion stings can be deadly to some people, as well as Black Widow bites, even bee stings. Unfortunately there is no way to tell until you get bit. The best defense against snake bites is to be wary when you are in snake country. (think like a snake) People think that the desert is the main habitat for rattlers, but up here in the high country we have just about as much of a population of rattlers as the desert does but there is a difference in the times they are active.
Be aware that concentrations can be high in different terrain up to the 6000' level. The University Of Arizona sends student herpetologists up to Prescott, specifically the Granite Mtn area, every year to collect rattle snakes for producing anti-venom. Granite Mtn is a known habitat for the black timber rattler which is one of the few snakes in the world that cobra antivenom can be produced from, plus there is an abundance of diamondbacks... I have seen them with over 20 snakes in gunny sacks in there camp at Granite Basin Lake......

hoppy47m wrote:Rattlesnakes do NOT need to coil in order to strike...

I stand corrected

Question... I've only been fortunate enough to hear a rattler slither off. I've never seen one in person. However, I read of many people using their hiking poles to move them off of the trail. My poles are about 5 feet in length. A rattler can strike up to 2 times (?) its length, right? Then, why would people be this crazy? Is there some reaction when probed with a pole where the snakes just chill and don't strike?

Has anyone here done this?

Inquiring minds want to know.

Coaster

A rattler does not always rattle when it gets defensive, but when it is rattling, it will strike anything that moves within it's striking range. On a search in Florence last week we found 4 of them and none of them rattled. We threw rocks near them and used treking poles to move them and still no rattle. A couple coiled and got defensive and the others just slithered off. Going off my personal experiences with them, I'd say about 20% of the time they will rattle when they see you (I've only heard 2 rattle, but I've seen and been near at least 10).


As for their striking distance, you are almost right. They can strike half their body length when coiled. Since the biggest dudes get about 6 feet long, 3 feet away is almost safe and 6 feet is safer. Also, their strike is lightning fast, but because they have horrible eyesight they are highly inaccurate. Thus, if you step on one, still get the @&%#$*% off it as fast as you can, you may beat the second strike if the first one misses.

Side note, a couple of weeks ago up at Watson Lake I watched a garter snake eat a fish! I'm not sure if it caught the fish or found a dead one, but the fish looked fresh. Of course I did not have a camera... I watched a rattler eat a horny toad once years ago and also didn't have a camera...

Sorry Joe...................I didn't mean to make it sound that way

Snakes can catch live fish. Once I was fishing in a farm pond. The calm water was disturbed by something wiggling in the center of the pond. The wiggling moved across the pond to the far shore. I snuck around to see what it was. I found a 3 foot water snake that had caught a 4 inch catfish. The snake had the fish by the middle and took it onshore so he could release it and take it by the head. It was pretty cool.
Rattlesnakes do have a very quick strike. Once again, when I was a kid there was an outdoor program where the guy would sometimes bring on snakes, lizards, and such. One week he had a guest on who brought in a Cobra. After talking about the cobra the guest distracted the cobra with one hand and then caught it behind the head with his other hand. It turns out Cobras have a very slow strike. The next week the regular host brought on a Western Diamondback. When he was ready to put it up he tried the distraction trick but when he waved his hand in front of the rattler it promptly bit him! That was very impressive. It's good to know your snakes!
I've used my hiking staff to gently move a rattler off the trail and once I used very small rocks to get an agitated Mohave to move off the trail. Most snakes will leave if you give them a chance. Some need a little encouragement like the minor irritation of tiny (pea sized) rocks hitting near them. They're not stupid. They know it's not good to bring fangs to a rock fight. Just be sure to pick small items so you don't injure the snake. After all, you're in his house. Be a good guest.

I'm very new to Arizona, hiking, snakes, spiders, etc.
I don't want to "assume" anything at this point.
Are snake bites rare while hiking but seeing a snake is common?
Where can I find information on hiking 101? (seriously said)
Private emails may work well for this post, I don't want to
turn this forum post into SherileeAZ's Hiking 101 class! lol
Also I am planning to attend a hiking club meeting for the
first time the first week of June. Good place to start I "assume" hehe!

Back to this forum post...

I feel so sad for the man who got bit while exiting his
car. I think this was a learning experience for all of us but unfortunately for this man.
Moral of this, we can't be too cautious. :idea:


Sherileeaz

They know it's not good to bring fangs to a rock fight. Just be sure to pick small items so you don't injure the snake. After all, you're in his house. Be a good guest.

I think it was Chris Townsend that said it was easy to kill a rattler with a throw of a rock. Kinda sad. I certainly wouldn't want to do that. If I saw one on the trail that didn't move, I'd probably find an alternate route as opposed to throwing rocks. I am certinaly not brave enough to use my poles as leverage (yet).

Coaster

Are snake bites rare while hiking but seeing a snake is common?
Where can I find information on hiking 101? (seriously said)

I think they are rare. I think the majority of people that are bitten are ones that stupidly try to grab one with their hands. Most bites seem to be on the hands/fingers. If you're worried about being bit, you coudl always wear chaps, or the poor mans solution: cardboard around your lower legs.

Coaster

It's all good hoppy

Sherileeaz there's a pretty good article by ck1 titled "Snake Encounters"
click on Articles in the header of any page

Are snake bites rare while hiking but seeing a snake is common?

Yes you are correct. Snakes don't want anything to do with us really, we are the intruders, they are just going about their daily routine. Rattlers will give you fair warning 99% of the time, the other 1% is when we are unfortunate enough to step on them or for some reason haven't heard their warning. Snakes are cold blooded, which means their body temperature is the same as the outside temperature. In the spring in the desert, you will find them in the sunny spots warming up to prepare for a cool night. In the summertime you will find them active from sundown to early morning, although it is also not uncommon to see one in the mid day heat......Personally I avoid night hiking in the desert in the summer. Near Wickenburg there are a lot of snakes at night... That is when their food supply is most active also.
Up in higher elevations you can find them most any time of the day. Usually they know you are coming long before you get there and will move out of your way, never to be seen. Just pay attention to where you are going, glancing at the trail well ahead of you at times. There isn't any need to miss the scenic views and concentrate on every step you take, that kind of takes the fun out of hiking......If you are bouldering or climbing, always be sure to chuck some small pebbles or use a bent stick to probe the area before you put your hand up there, snakes like to lay on ledges at times....I once saw a rattlesnake about 10' down INSIDE an old hand dug well, the only thing I can think of is that it's burrow must have come out at that level.......

Thank you Joe, you have an awesome site, there is so much info, I think I miss the forest because of the trees!!! Or just chalk it up to I'm blonde! :roll:

Either way, Thanks again! I'm heading to the "articles" section now!

Sherileeaz

Thank you Hoppi, you explained it very well.

I have to be honest, I was starting to think that maybe hiking isn't for me.
But your post renewed my confidence.

I like challenges and hiking is on my "wish list" of things I want to accomplish and
succeed at. Coming from the Chicago area, you can see why this is a whole
new territory for me.

Thanks again,
Sherileeaz

coaster wrote:I think the majority of people that are bitten are ones that stupidly try to grab one with their hands.
Coaster

That's right. I was talking with a member of the Arizona Herpetological Association she informed me that 95% of rattlesnake bites involve: Men between the ages of 18 and 25 and alcohol.

It is odd to me. A person living here and never seeing a rattler. I used to hunt them at night. (For skins and heads). I don't now though. I found that even with half their body gone they can still strike. Even with a 20 gauge slug through the head, they can still snap. So my advice is, Don't get near one until you know it's good and dead. And if you happen to step on one at night by mistake, RUN LIKE THE WIND!

I've been under the impression that when a snake rattles, what it really wants is for you to move away, not necessarily to strike. Is this accurate?