HikeArizona.COM

Hey HAZ People,

I'm moving back to AZ this November (I live in S. KOREA) and wanted to do an overnight into the Grand Canyon. Im thinking Kaibab trail in and Bright Angel trail out. I saw online that you need to apply for a permit at least 3 months out to stay at the camp grounds. I also saw that you can show up in the morning at 0800 and try to get a permit.

What are my chances of being able to get a permit during the winter season if I just show up? My biggest issue is I cant plan anything that far out with my job, but I can get a week or two off at a time. I was thinking I can camp outside the park and just show up like on a Monday or Sunday, and if I didnt get a pass the first day try the next?

In the past I have been able to get a camping pass at the Mather campground during the summer by just showing up and asking if any spots were open, but I'm guessing the availability in the canyon might be much less.

If I wait until it snows and they close the roads, could I just take the train in from William's to increase my odds?

Any GC winter backpacking advice? Can I setup a hammock, or is it tent only?

Thanks for any help

I've only dealt with that system twice so others will know better.
Guessing that is a popular area. Having more options increases your chances.

Top of any page...
Find > type "grand use". Which maps the use areas. Permits are limited per use area.
- designated camping areas are the tent icons
- options > official ( displays routes, zoom in to a specific area first )
Helps to know what you are requesting. Out of the popular areas they questioned our intentions more so be sure you know what you are doing.

2 other specific GC options @ [ Intro to Arizona Backpacking / Options ]

@BPAFree

I would advise a tent for sure. You can only hang above the rim. Hanging on vegetation below the rim is against park rules. Anyway, the only place you could hang below the rim is in the developed campsites anyway - there's not a lot in the way of trees down there.

If I were you I would check out Myownfrontier on youtube. Look for his 2018 videos from GCNP, they are just stellar. Grab some popcorn, maybe a couple beers.

I've been researching permits by coincidence starting today for just myself... For a trip next march... *right now*. That might give you an idea of the advance time needed. That's not to say you can't just show up - you can but December looks like it's already full on permits. You can request up to 4 months in advance but I plan to have all my ducks in a row with regards to at least two different routes I might choose. You can be denied for one permit but approved for a different one - approval depends on where you plan to camp each night. I personally wouldn't travel all that distance on a whim on the off chance that you'd pull a permit showing up at the ranger station.

They reserve some permits for walkups. Also consider a different trail. The rangers will also suggest that. The night before, camp for free on dirt roads in National Forest before getting to Tusayan. You don't need Mather.

Thanks for the tips, I really appreciate it. I will definitely do some more research on the HAZ site for some other trails. I was pretty much going off of Chums recommended South Kaibab / Bright Angel Corridor Loop.

I will checkout that youtube channel for sure, the more I can learn the better.

Thanks for the free camping idea as well. I read online there is a free campsite in the park somewhere. It must be far away because I have never seen it.

I will make the best of the trip regardless if I can get a permit to stay overnight. I pretty much always do trips on a whim, it's part of the adventure, and I love a road trip.

@Chuy
First I'd heard of a free campsite within the park. There are certain areas where you can do backcountry car camping, such as at Swamp Point on the North Rim. Also, you can car camp at the top of the South Bass Trail. But you are supposed to get a backcountry car camping permit for that. Very easy to get, but you do need one. Oh, and you'd need 4-wheel drive to get to those places. But there are plenty of places to camp for free in the National Forest. Just drive out onto any dirt road south of Tusayan and look for a spot where people have camped before. There will be plenty of other people camping out there, because if it's in November, it'll be hunting season. And, it will be cold. It might even be snowy. Brrr, November on the rim...

if you get the permit to stay at one of the TWO group sites at Phantom, you can hang there. the poles that are used for pack hanging (critters) are perfectly spaced for straps. four of us hammock veterans went down to educate the rangers and staff on hammock use, there is no hanging from trees at phantom, but I did not a see specific "ban" on hammocks anywhere in writing for the rest of the canyon. we also set up rigs at Indian Garden - Derek brought copies of his book "the ultimate hang" to pass around and reduce ignorance/presuppositions about hanging. the rangers took to it well. this is the photoset from that trip:
[ photoset ]

te_wa wrote: ↑Sep 01 2019 8:48 am if you get the permit to stay at one of the TWO group sites at Phantom, you can hang there. the poles that are used for pack hanging (critters) are perfectly spaced for straps.

Nice, that's what I hoping for and to possibly do. You guys have a nice variety of setups, what degree TQ and UQ did you use for the trip?

Chuy wrote:what degree TQ and UQ

iirc, that's my shorty UQ on the all black rig with about 2.5" loft... so i'd say 20 degree. my TQ is around 30°

temps at indian garden were low in march... prolly around 25. was GLAD to get down to phantom, much warmer.