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I have been looking into trying to get a backcountry permit for the GC corridor for 2024 and mostly understand it, but don't get how the campgrounds work. I know it is switching to rec.gov next year. Do the campgrounds have X number of sites, each good for Y number of people (like most campgrounds) or do they work some other way?

I read something about limiting a group to 6 or less for better chances. Is a campsite good for 6 people? Looks like there is a per person fee for the back country permits. If I get a campsite, can I figure out later how many (1-6) will be in my group?

Thanks!

@LouieB
Campgrounds have individual sites that accommodate groups up to 6 people. There are a limited number of "group sites" for larger groups of 7-11 people. I don't know the inventory at each campground, but BA Campground has only two large group sites and the rest are for regular groups up to 6 people.

I believe that there are limits to the total number of people in the campgrounds, so if there are 20 sites but the campground has a capacity of 75, then not all 20 sites can have a group of 6. So if you make a reservation for a group of 2, you might be able to add up to 4 people to your permit later on, but you might also NOT be able to do so if the permits at the other sites exceed the total capacity of the campground. If that makes sense?

It's best to know how many people will be coming when you apply for your permit.

Side note: some of the campsites at Bright Angel CG now have signs posted "Four Tent Minimum".

chumley wrote:@LouieB
Campgrounds have individual sites that accommodate groups up to 6 people. There are a limited number of "group sites" for larger groups of 7-11 people. I don't know the inventory at each campground, but BA Campground has only two large group sites and the rest are for regular groups up to 6 people.

I believe that there are limits to the total number of people in the campgrounds, so if there are 20 sites but the campground has a capacity of 75, then not all 20 sites can have a group of 6. So if you make a reservation for a group of 2, you might be able to add up to 4 people to your permit later on, but you might also NOT be able to do so if the permits at the other sites exceed the total capacity of the campground. If that makes sense?

Yeah, thanks that mostly makes sense. Interesting, in your hypothetical example, the campground could be full with just 20 solo hikers. Or if every group had 6, the campground could be "full" despite having empty sites. It's a little annoying not being able to see any of the steps on recreation.gov beyond the lottery sign up unless you enter and win. I suppose we might be able to see that on Oct 1, when January's lottery winner's window is over.

chumley wrote:It's best to know how many people will be coming when you apply for your permit.

That would be nice, but I have planned a number of these trips and figuring exactly who wants and is able to go 6 months out is basically impossible.

I have read that the "per person" portion of the fee is refundable. So if I sign up for 6, then later reduce to 4, can I get a 2 person refund, or is it only if you cancel the permit entirely?

Dave1 wrote:Side note: some of the campsites at Bright Angel CG now have signs posted "Four Tent Minimum".

I assume those must be the larger group sites.

@LouieB
I don't know how the new wreck.gov system will work for adjusting the number of people on a permit. It's not clear to me.

As for the 4 tent minimum spots, it's because camp sites are first-come first-served (among those with a permit) and not all sites are large enough to accommodate a lot of tents. The two group sites at BA are for groups of 7-11 people. The other sites are for groups of up to 6. But if somebody with just one tent takes up a large site because they're there first, then when a group with 5 or 6 tents show up later in the day, there's no site large enough for them. So even though somebody with a permit camping in one tent arrives first, they are restricted from occupying one of the sites that is large enough to handle 4 or more tents.

@chumley
I wish they had this restriction in other areas. Showed up to Deer Creek last fall and a group of three people were occupying the giant site, while six of us had to cram into the other. Luckily they were cool with me setting up my tent in the big site, but it would've been even cooler if they hadn't taken the big site in the first place...

@ShatteredArm
The backcountry permit actually clearly indicates in the text on the back that the large site is reserved for groups of 6-11 at the specified backcountry camp areas with several sites like Thunder River, Deer Creek, Hermit, etc. There are wooden posts that indicate locations of each camp and which one is specified for people with the large group permit (though as of my last visit, the Deer Creek one was overgrown and not well marked). But the "restriction" you seek does exist, and if you have a permit for 7+ and arrive at a site with another permit holder occupying the larger site, you have every right to ask them to move. The text on both of your permits confirms it.

*If you were a group of 6 -- not a "large" group of 7-11 -- there's no indication that you have any more right to an available site than anybody else with a permit for a group sized 1-6. First come, first-served.

In April we had a challenge with an oversized group spurning the large group site at Monument Creek and snapping up all the smaller sites. Fortunately, we had arrived earlier and still got a site, but a number of solo and duo hikers had to pack together on the group site.

@chumley
I recall a story of your party taking a group site and then having to do some smooth talking to the actual permit holders for that site, when they arrived. Am I misremembering?

@chumley
I understand that "large group" officially starts at 7, but I would suggest that taking the smallest site that can accommodate your group, within reason, falls under "good backcountry etiquette."

The problem with the large group sites in the Grand Canyon is that you don't actually know whether someone has a permit for a large group unless you're the last group there. If we had had 7 in the group, we would've been in the same situation - someone else would already have been occupying the big site.

@fotg indeed, that situation is when I first learned that the group size thing is printed on the permit.
@shatteredarm yes, "good backcountry etiquette" would be be good to see more often. Large group or not, there are not many canyon sites that don't result in tents in necessarily close proximity.

@chumley
For the record, I just thought it was a funny story lol. Someone in your group said it was awkward AF, I am not making any implications about this thread, lol.