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Am preparing to drive to Texas for the Eclipse. So this might be my typical overly-optimistic enthusiasm. But within a week after my planned return (Wednesday), I would like to try the loop from Barnhardt TH, Y-Bar, MDT, Horse Camp Seep, Hopi Spring, Rock Creek, Half Moon back to Barnhardt.

I tried this last year in late April, but ended up bailing and took the Barnhardt trail back to the TH. (Although I had backpacked from the TH to Bear Spring the first night. So a bit of a detour then.)

There should be a lot of water on the trail. So maybe I can save 2 lbs by carrying only 2 liters this time? I know where water is now, having done the start and end of this loop before.

May be warm enough at night that I don't need to bring all my warm sleep clothes? (Save a pound.) But in the mountains. And often windy. Maybe just bring my puffy?

Should be cooler temps in April than it was when I tried the end parts of this loop in May and June last year. A plus.

Some of our intrepid hikers did this loop in one day. I am planning for two. Okay, maybe two and a half.

But while driving to TX (and back) I will miss one week of local training hikes here. And be sitting for 5 days. Don't know how that will impact me. (Although I didn't do any training last year before I tried this.)

BiFrost cleared both Y-Bar and Hopi for us. So that's a plus.

Would be nice to see the water fall along Rock Creek.

Would be nice to not see any bears after that, unlike last time.

I have no opinion about your trail quest, but I'm also driving to TX tomorrow. May not need special glasses, telescopes, or camera rigs but the Bar-B-Q is usally good.

Find your sea legs. Hike the supes. I can give you plans for whatever your objectives are so you can actually complete a trip without having to bail or put your health at risk. Unless suicide by misadventure is your goal which I’m starting to think it may be? If so, you do you.
With that said… only warm clothes you need is a puffy unless your sleep system can’t keep you warm. When you hike, you’re warm. When you stop, you either have a fire and are warm aloe chill in your tent with your bag/quilt so are warm.
Water: shouldn’t need more than 2 liters unless you’re dry camping. Obviously everyone is different with their intake so listen to your body.

Hansenaz wrote: ↑Apr 06 2024 10:03 am I have no opinion about your trail quest, but I'm also driving to TX tomorrow. May not need special glasses, telescopes, or camera rigs but the Bar-B-Q is usally good.

If it's like today, the clouds may be thin enough to see what's happening, but too thick for good photos. (I'm currently in TX hill country)

Having done nearly this exact trip many years ago, your plan seems fine. It would make for a reasonable, perhaps even leisurely 4 day trip for an experienced backpacker. Most of the difficulty will be on the first day. I would say the trip would be more difficult in 3 days but still doable for the fit and experienced crowd. This trip is strenuous and probably beyond the capability of most if attempted in only 2 days.

That said, your recent triplogs may give one pause in suggesting that you personally undertake this trip. It is difficult to evaluate people's abilities over the internet and only you will truly be able to evaluate whether you are adequately skilled and prepared.

Be responsible for yourself, go in with a having researched your water sources, camping locations, and planned your bailout route. If need be, have a final backup plan to call for help if you do get in a situation you cannot solve yourself. I am not advocating for people to go out unprepared and rely on a rescue organization to "save" them for solely being unprepared, but if you do feel you are adequately prepared, do your research, bring the appropriate gear, stick to a reasonable plan, and you do encounter unplanned difficulty you determine you are unable to get yourself out, then as a last resort that is something that is an option. That said, last time I was involved, Maricopa county sheriff office told me that they generally refrain from doing search and rescue for people in the Mazatzals beyond checking trailheads, with the only notable exception I am aware of being the search for Joe.

In contrast, Maricopa County as well as SSR does more frequently engage in search and rescue in the Superstitions when deemed necessary. Hence why xsproutx is probably encouraging you to demonstrate your capabilities and gain experience in areas a bit more friendly to novice backpackers and the search and rescue crowd. It is advisable to show you can complete at least a series of 10 multiday trips in a row without stories of catastrophes and with no reportable problems/bail-outs before tackling more advanced trips.

Thanks all for your thoughts. Am back from five days of sitting/driving in a truck. Boy are my leg muscles tight.

(Eclipse was perfect.)

Wow - it became hot here while we were gone.

The plan is to go on a training hike tomorrow, 5 miles, with 25 lbs and see how I do. Will evaluate after that. (I don't know if it rained here while I was away. Will have to check Water Reports too.)

And two weeks ago, a pole segment broke on my Copper Spur. (Was camping out in the backyard during that two days of rain.) Big Agnus is dragging their feet on sending me a replacement.

From @FOTG 's trip report:

However, I might have forgot how steep that trail gets through there. The Rock Creek Trail got a little primitive during the early portion of the descent, but got pretty nice again, shortly after the waterfall.

Hmmm... I should be lighter by then if I go up from Y-Bar. Fortunately, Water Reports look good. (As of last week.)

@TooOld2Hike_qm
I’d backpack into Chisholm Camp, set up a base camp and explore from there for three days. Bring a light pack for day hiking, hike north on the AZT one day, maybe hit the high point on Rock Creek, go south the other day, maybe explore S Fork Trail etc one day. Avoid Brody Seep. Get a feel for the area and enjoy your miles with a light pack. Water will not be an issue for awhile.

@FOTG
Tnx. Yeah, Brody Seep looked impossible from the MDT. (Steep downhill. No real trail to see even with the sign pointing the way.) I have no interest in trying it. (Don't even know if there's water at the bottom.)

Not familiar with Chilson Camp, per se, but saw its location on a video by Jacob E. (West of Chilson Spring.)

Glad to hear that water won't be a problem for a while. I use about 3/4 liter for dinner and breakfast (rehydrating, cleaning, drinking). Fine when I'm camping near water. Have to carry it when not.

Chilson Camp is a nice wide open area that has incredible views/alpenglow when the sun is going down. Just south of the Barnhardt/Divide trail. For water, there are a couple of options. The spring is nearby, albeit up a pretty steep hill. There will almost certainly be water crossing a wash 1/4 mile east of the camp (can't miss it as it cuts through the trail). And there is also a trough in the camp (a half barrel) that will likely have water in it. It's not spring fed but likely has plenty of rain water in it.

@xsproutx

xsproutx wrote:Unless suicide by misadventure is your goal which I’m starting to think it may be?

I can understand how one could get that impression.

But I am not looking to kill myself. (In addition to internalized morals, I have a responsibility to a widow.) For example, I'm trying to be somewhat cautious about my "adventures" by asking for advice here in advance, having a Plan B, etc.

It's more like I'm an Old Fool. (Although, to me, some of the younger folk here who go off trail to scramble up rock faced mountains just to find a marker at the top seem a little crazy. And hiking through alligator infested water along the Florida Trail seems nuts.)

Really, I think my problem is that I shouldn't be backpacking at my age.

Physically, as I rapidly (so it seems) approach 70, I find that climbing ladders is now slow and scary. (My balance isn't what it used to be when I was younger and heights now make me dizzy.) I can't do things now that were once easy. (I have started hanging from an 8 foot hang bar at the Park. But at first, I had forgotten how to jump and couldn't jump the 6 inches up to grab the bar!)

While I've been able to add muscle lately (can now do 6 pull-ups), soon I'll be at the point where I lose more muscle than I can gain.

Mentally, I know I make more mental mistakes than I used to.

(Sadly, there will come a time when I won't realize that I'm making mistakes. See the sad dementia test examples, were people aren't aware of their mistakes.) That's one reason my airplane partner and I sold our plane.

For sure I have made some bad decisions previously. Hopefully, I have learned (quickly) from them and am starting to gain experience and recognize my limitations.

Part of that is due to what I'm hearing is "the most common mistake that new backpackers make:" Underestimating the difficulty of the trail. (And/Or I suppose a corollary, overestimating one's abilities.)

But I don't know how to know your capabilities unless you challenge yourself. And, unfortunately, I'm learning backpacking by myself. Which is somewhat like teaching yourself to parachute solo.

Part of this is ignorance on my part. (Which is okay. We're all ignorant about something.) "It's only walking." (Albeit with an extra 20% of weight on your back.) "What's so hard about that?"

But admittedly, I've been "stupid" - defined as being willfully ignorant of one's own ignorance.

Part of this is clouded thinking from not enough brain sugar and/or water on trail and hard handedness, not wanting to admit defeat/quit/not wanting to turn around.

This could be a total lack of judgment on my part. (Old age mental issues, as above.) I had a (young) student pilot once who had no judgment. I told him that I would never sign him off, even tho he could perform the mechanics of flying just fine. I suppose that could be me now.

A large part of this is pride. I don't want to admit that I'm too old to do the things that I could do when I was young. I don't want to be a like an old horse led out to pasture. (Apparently a common malady for men my age. I saw a video about the AT where the girl hiker commented that most of the backpackers on the AT were old retired men.)

Unfortunately, there is the Biblical proverb that "Pride goes before a fall." Perhaps literally here.

Well, I'm enjoying the exercise and I am learning a lot from the challenges. (Although how I will apply to life what I've learned is not clear.)

I expect that this will be the last year that I can backpack (either health, economy, world politics), and I want to make use of the expensive equipment I bought in 2019 before I can't anymore.

And even tho it's been scary at times, it's been more fun than not - so far.

But I never considered that one could die backpacking. This hobby isn't like stamp collecting.

I hope not to end up like the dead backpacker recently found.

Holy cow that is sucking the air out of the living. I thought that was what Jim-H and I did. Just do it.

@Alston_Neal
! Yeah, sorry, a little "heavy."

Good grief, I'm 67 and have a lot of years under my belt hiking, camping, backpacking, cave and mine exploring, 4x4 ing and while I can't do some of the things I used to I don't worry about stepping out of my house in the morning. I do what I can and still enjoy. Maybe you need to join some group hikes of the more mellow nature ( groan, I know). People here give you advice or opinions and you seem to just brush them off. Maybe you are fixated on a certain area because it is a challenge to you and you need that stimulation. There is a fine line between understanding your limitations and just being silly.

There is a popular snowbird here who spends 6 months minus a day who hikes flat iron every day or damn near when he is in Arizona. He’s in his 90s.

Pretty sure if you were a commercial pilot you started on smaller airframes before building up to the stuff that made you money. Hiking is no different; start easier and lower risk before harder things. Or look for people to pity you and deal with finding your body on trail

Here is Dixie walking (closely) around alligators on the Florida Trail.

Considering that it seems someone is killed by an alligator every year on a golf course in Florida, this seems "suicidal" to me.

We share the same planet with wild creatures. If you venture outdoors in wilderness areas, you need to be prepared to have safe wildlife encounters.

Human's aren't a natural food source of animals, a dangerous animal you encounter in the wild will be just as scared of you as you are of them. At least, until the animal becomes habituated to people through people feeding them.

The hiker in the video: visually identifies the animal, observes the animal to perceive the level of danger, doesn't aggravate the animal, doesn't try to get close to and poke at the animal, doesn't try to touch the animal nor pick it up, allows the animal to become aware of the hiker's presence by speaking to it (so it isn't surprised), continues to observe the animal, and the hiker charts a course a reasonable distance away from the animal in a way that doesn't put you into a worse predicament, stays far away from the bitey end, doesn't put herself between a momma and her babies, and continues to observe the animal the entire time.

This is a great example of a safe animal encounter.

Follow the same approach with rattlesnakes, bears, alligators and other dangerous animals you will generally be OK. Let's exclude some animals from the list through that don't live in Arizona. Grizzlies will probably kill and eat you about 1 percent of the time regardless of what you do if you don't carry enough of a firearm. Polar bears about 95% of the time. Plan wisely when venturing far afield.

Grizzlies will probably kill and eat you about 1 percent of the time regardless of what you do if you don't carry enough of a firearm. Polar bears about 95% of the time.

Probably hyenas too.

Don't know what happened or what I missed, and I am not reading through this thread as I really don't care enough to do it, but man, Arizona bear species richness has really gotten a lot more diverse from when I moved here.