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I’m considering the following 4-day/3-night itinerary for two experienced backpackers with a little desert experience who prefer to stay on the trail. Heading out early next week.

Route

Day 1: Peralta trailhead up to around Second Water Spring/Canyon via Peralta and Black Mesa trails (~11 miles)
Day 2: Second Water Spring to Charlebois, via Boulder Canyon and Dutchman trails (~9 miles)
Day 3: Charlesbois spring to Brads Water, either via Dutchman/Whiskey Springs (~9 miles) or via Peters/Hoolie Bacon (~14 miles)
Day 4: Brads Water back to Peralta Trailhead (11 miles)

Questions:

• Does this seem like a reasonable itinerary? Any special concerns you might know of?

• Can I count on water at Second Water Spring? On 2/16 the water report listed “lots of clean pools” in the canyon with a “slow trickle” of the spring/stream.

• Can I count on water at Brads Water and Charlebois? These both look like strong, reliable sources from the water reports.

• Are there reasonable campsites to be had in the vicinity of Brads Water?

• Any opinion on whether to do this clockwise or counterclockwise?

Many thanks to the wisdom of HikeArizona.com!

@knigam Can I count on water at Second Water Spring? There was was water yesterday 3/2 at the junction of Second Water Canyon & Second Water Trail so safe to say there will be water there next week. Charlebois & Brads water are very reliable water sources.

@wallyfrack
@knigam
Reeds Water also along your track is reliable. It will take a 10'-15' string to get you collection device to the water in the well.

The answer to all your questions is "yep".
-Good itinerary/perfect "intro to the supes". Would probably go Dutch/Whiskey vs peters/hoolie due to trail conditions but either is fine.
-Second water is good
-Brad's water is good. Note, it's off trail up a wash. Easy enough to find but mark it on your map/a waypoint. Roughly .25 miles off trail (maybe a little less)
-Reeds water is good but note it's down a well and, like mentioned above, you'll want some cordage of some sort that can be tied to a bail of some sort to drop and collect. I have a smart water bottle with the top cut off that I hole punched that I use as a scoop/to hold things and use it here as well. Works well. Before you go through that work, though, go peak just east on randolph canyon maybe a tenth of a mile east; often times the creek is above the ground there for a 10 foot stretch even during dry times. It's super dry this year so it may not be, but would be much easier to collect from if it is and it's close enough to be worth it
-Great camping right off the trail before heading up to the water source. Camping spots, in general, are plentiful in the supes
-I'd probably do it CCW. Makes the first day a lot easier/ease into things

Your itinerary seems reasonable. Something to be aware of is that you will be in and out of the burnt patchwork of the Supes that was due to recent wildfires.

Campsites are generally available elevated from the level of the washes and creekbeds you will encounter. You indicate you have little desert hiking experience, so the don't camp in washes rule is a good general one to take with you whenever backpacking in the desert. You are already following the #1 rule of backpacking in the desert which is to seek out resources and recent reports on water sources, and to plan your trips around those water sources.

Hope you enjoy your trip!

Thanks for the great feedback on water sources, campsites and desert hiking rules. I'll make sure to post a triplog and water reports afterwards.

Any suggestions for how to understand likely low temperatures? Looks like we'll be camping at elevations ~2100-3400. I see a weather forecast for Tortilla Flat with lows around 45. Would that suggest lows around 35 or more like 25-30? (I'm guessing winds should be expected as well.) Trying to decide between my regular sleeping bag or my winter sleeping bag...

knigam wrote:suggestions for how to understand likely low temperatures

This can vary quite a bit, especially at this time of year. If there is rain in the forecast you can expect the temperature to be pretty close to the Tortilla Flat forecast along the whole route. In March, it would be exceptionally unusual for it to get below freezing during a storm. But here in the desert, in clear and wind-free conditions, the temperature at night can drop quite dramatically, especially in very low-lying microclimates (valleys and creeks/washes which are common camp locations). Even so, Tortilla Flat is itself in such a location, and at this time of year, 25 is probably the low end of what you might encounter, and I would expect not much less than 10 degrees lower than that forecast. The daytime high temp does not vary as much and should be within a couple of degrees of Tortilla Flat.

Here on HAZ if you select the "options" menu from the map there is an button for "point forecast" that will provide the forecast for wherever the map crosshair is centered. This comes from the National Weather Service and is as reliable a source for temperatures as any forecast source available.

Some places are cold sinks. If you are camping in a valley surrounded by mountains, expect it to be cooler. If you can look out from your campsite before nightfall and see somewhere the terrain drops down a few hundred feet below you it will be warmer at night. I've never actually measured using a thermometer but that type of terrain effect feels like about -10 to +5 degrees in difference in a campsite temp compared to the average nighttime temperature in the area. Wind, rain, and moist air though tends to even out the temperature. Still and dry air produces more differences between cold sinks and elevated areas.

That's a lot of words to say that it depends, and nobody can't give you a perfect answer about what temperature to plan for.

I use the point forecast tool Chums describes plotted for each of the planned campsites and plan gear for about 10 degrees colder, maybe 20 degrees colder if the weather forecast appears erratic or I know I will be camping down in a bowl (HAZ also has topo maps).

Keep in mind you can always unzip a sleeping bag a bit if you are too warm, but you can't add down if you are too cold. Cold nights are far worse than warm ones, in my experience.

Old adage--in winter camp high in summer camp low regarding desert washes and hilly terrain. Also consider when you can get morning sun soonest.

Curious to hear how this trip went! We are planning a very similar trip in a couple of weeks, but after talking to a ranger at the Mesa station I am not feeling very confident about water sources. He said not to trust any of them, and it's not a great idea to take water from the wildlife since it's so low.

rikturr wrote: ↑Mar 12 2025 8:54 am Curious to hear how this trip went! We are planning a very similar trip in a couple of weeks, but after talking to a ranger at the Mesa station I am not feeling very confident about water sources. He said not to trust any of them, and it's not a great idea to take water from the wildlife since it's so low.

That's been the Mesa Ranger Station stock answer for more than 20 years. Some rangers will answer differently, but there's always somebody there who will say not to count on anything.

Yeah, I often suggest that people should contact a local ranger station for current information or conditions wherever they may be going, but in my experience, Mesa RD is completely useless for most backcountry information.

The good news is that there have been a series of storms that have brought much-needed rain there. Another is expected tomorrow, though it does look like the current stormy pattern will be shifting back toward drier weather after this one.

There are multiple reliable sources out here, even in heavy drought years. That's a fact.

Now, where things get funny is that some people will consider water with a little algae in it "not good" and will pass by it. Or pools, because there's no flow. You got a modern filter, though? You're good.

There have been more than a few times I've called a BLM office or somewhere for something off the beaten path and they say not to trust any sources. Every single time, I respond with something like, "I'm from AZ and drink cow poop water. I'm good with any water." and they respond with, "Oh great, this source this source and this source will be fine"

They tend to err on the side of caution, which makes sense.

Thanks everyone for the useful comments on this thread. We're planning a 4 night loop next week. Prior to the recent rain it looked as if labarge and charlebois were the only likely water sources. We'd be very grateful for any update-to-date reports

We're coming in from Seattle where we don't spend a.lot of time worrying about water :-)

You'll definitely be solid now. There is solid potential of more rain over the next couple of days and that's going to fill up pot holes and maaaaaaaaaaaybe get a little flow going in a couple of places depending on how it goes. It'll be a great time to be out there.