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This is my second post in the same night - sorry.

I have been getting some mixed reports on the feasibilty of the East route up Weaver's Needle for those of us who are inexperienced. Some reports have told me that it is simply a scramble with relatively little exposure, and others have told me that I should have ropes and be prepared for a couple technical maneuvers.

Any feedback is greatly appreciated.

Also, info on the best approach from Pinon camp/Freemont Saddle is greatly appreciated as well.

It can be done, non-technically. But all that means is that a rope and protection isn't absolutely necessesary, you still have to be comfortable with exposure and you still have to have some climbing/scrambling experience. You cannot just walk to the top. You do have to "climb" up there, but the climbing route is probobly only like a low class 5 so protection isn't required.

matt gilbert wrote:,. . . the climbing route is probobly only like a low class 5 so protection isn't required.

Definitely consider a helmet. Most of your body can tolerate a fall, your head won't tolerate it well that far from medical attention.

Have you looked at AZ-Outdoorsman's and Fritzski's photos of their climbs up Weaver's Needle? I don't personally know Fritzski, but I do know AZ-Outdoorsman. If AZ-Outdoorsman is using ropes, I would use ropes. From Fritzski's activity here on HAZ, I would also conclude that I would use ropes. I don't want to make it harder on Superstition Search & Rescue than it needs to be. Don't make them leave a nice dinner with their family to come rescue you.

Now my soapbox and 2cents worth . . .If you are considering climbing without ropes because you don't know how to use ropes, take the time to learn. Visit Phoenix Rock Gym. Look into classes at the Community Colleges. Once you know how to climb with ropes, then you can make an informed decision of when to use them and when not to use them. Weaver's Needle Summit will still be there after you've learned to climb with ropes. To attempt to climb without ropes simply because you don't know how to use them is a recipe for disaster.

And remember, the going up is easier than the coming down. A little safety on the way down - after you are tired = is priceless. It's worth the time and effort to learn to use ropes if you want to go on climbs like this.

Well said.

In response to al1inaz's reply: Good advice. It was originally communicated to me that it was more of a scramble than a climb. So, if it is a climb, it is out. I certainly am not trying to give SAR any more work than they already have.

I have climbed the east side without ropes. As a climber, I do not reccommend this! The first 50 ft or so is slightly less than vertical and if you have no climbing experience, you will probably find that you wasted your time hiking up there only to be turned around well short of your goal. The last 30 ft or so is easy but VERY exposed. If you are not comfortable with heights, you will not enjoy that section.

Even if you don't use a rope on the way up, it is a good idea to bring one for the way down. Rappelling is much easier, faster, and safer than down-climbing. Be sure that you know how to use your gear.

Always wear a helmet! The rock on Weaver's Needle is very chossy. Chunks can dislodge when you least expect them to! I've witnessed this firsthand!

I hate to sound preachy, but I know of a lot of injuries and close-calls on Weaver's Needle.

In response to Matt Hoffman's reply: Great! Thanks for the info!

Matt, how did Weaver's compare to our trip from Brown's Peak to the second peak? I'm sure Weaver's had more exposure but was it more technical than that cliff we scaled after traversing the ridge? BTW, good to see you.
-George

George!

Great to hear from you! I'm jealous of your somewhat recent completion of the Four Peaks Motherlode. I can't seem to find the time to work that one into my schedule. I've become obsessed with the Grand Canyon.

Anyway, I would say that Weaver's Needle is much more technical and exposed than the traverse on the 2nd peak. Most of the needle is not exposed at all, but requires some rock-climbing ability. The last bit of climbing to the top is super-exposed. A fall here would be an airy few hundred feet down. A fall on the 2nd peak would be a several hundred foot tumble in my opinion. Still bad .

Hope this helps. Shoot me a PM if you find yourself in need of a hiking partner.

matt

George,

I'm retarded. I reread your last post, and now I know the cliff you're talking about. Dude, that was scary at the time. Now, it's really hard to say which is harder. I haven't been on 4 Peaks since we were there, and it's been almost 1 1/2 years since I've done Weaver's. I have done some climbing and downclimbing in the Grand Canyon recently on several different trips that was probably harder than 4 Peaks and Weaver's, but for some reason I was kinda comfortable. I guess experience pays off eventually.

I'm sure I'll see you out there.

matt