HikeArizona.COM

Hello,

I’m a hiker and backpacker from Seattle. I will be attending a conference in Tucson the last week of June and I am looking for some hiking advice. I’ll be taking a few days before the conference to rent a car and head into the general area of the White Mountains, in hopes of finding some high lakes to hike to and fish for Apache trout. I’m looking for at least one overnighter. I’ve spent a good deal of time in Arizona as a youngster and I’m familiar with most of the state, but I’ve never actually hiked there.

A few questions I have:

-How bad is the heat in late June in this area? I will carry as much water as I can and I do have a filter, but I’m aware the opportunities to find water are much less than in my home range of the Cascade Mountains.

- how about rattlers? We have more rattlers in Washington state than most people are aware of, but they are not found in the Cascades. The Pacific Rattlesnake, which occupies the central & eastern portion of our state, is pretty wimpy compared to your Western Diamondbacks. I normally hike with an 8x10 Siltarp, but I would probably elect to use a tent on this trip. This past summer I did a kayak trip below Hoover Dam and the ants invaded every night, so I’m guessing there are more creepy crawlies than I am used to.

-how is GPS reception in the White Mountains, generally speaking? I have a bare-bones Magellan Explorist 100, which loses signal in the Cascades, but it works well in the more open parts of our state.

-Trailhead requirements? In my state we must possess a “recreation permit” in order to park vehicles at trailheads. Does Arizona or the Apache tribe require similar permits? (I assume the White Mountain Apache tribe requires permits and fees to access their land).

-Emergency notifications. Since I’ll most likely be hiking solo, would there be any clubs or individuals (hikers?) with whom I could leave a trip plan, itinerary and emergency contact info?

-Hike suggestions: this is a tough one because I don’t want to ask anyone to give up their prized hiking locations, especially if it involves pristine and fragile high lakes. But if someone could point me in the right direction perhaps I could ferret out these places in my own research.

Lastly, if anyone has any questions or needs info on hiking in the Washington Cascades, I’d be happy to help out all I can. My passion is to fish and hike to high mountain lakes, and I’m a member of the Washington Trailblazers; a 75 year old club which stocks our alpine lakes with fish by backpack. My hangout is at http://nwhikers.net, and my two high lakes fishing clubs are the Trailblazers: http://watrailblazers.org/ and the Washington State Hi Lakers: http://hilakers.org/

Thank you,

Cliff
Seattle, WA

salish wrote:Hello,. . . in hopes of finding some high lakes to hike to and fish for Apache trout. Thank you,

Cliff

For what you are looking for, here is some info to point you in the right direction http://www.gf.state.az.us/w_c/apache_fishing.shtml

It seems to me that you are really seeking fishing advice more than hiking advice. There really aren't any hiking secrets here, if it's a good hike someone has probably posted it. But finding a good hike and finding Apache Troutare different matters.

Mount Baldy is the focal point. You are going to need some locals from the Springerville area with local knowledge to help you, otherwise you'll find a lot of Brownies & Cuts. They are stocked, but knowing where to look is tough. Look at the North Fork of the Whiteriver and East Fork of the Whiteriver.

The temps are fine. That's where we go in the summer to cool off. Buzzworms aren't worth mentioning. Carry bugspray. Your worries are more your trout stamps and Tribe permits. I don't think you'll have any trailhead issues if you have your permits. GPS is fine - avoid deep canyons & heavy tree cover, but that shouldn't be a problem if you are fishing. You had so many questions in your post I'm not sure that I've covered them all, but anyway - have a great time. Oh yeah, the White Mountains are sort of a schlep from Tucson but well worth it.

Hope this helps.

Hi Salish, Welcome to the website!

I have lived in the White Mtns. for 7 years, and before that I lived for 13 years in Tucson, so I can help you with some stuff.

There are no high mtn. lakes to hike to in the White Mtns. in the National Forest. All of the lakes have roads going to them. (There may be some on the Apache Reservation, but I never go there.) There are plenty of backpacking opportunities for flyfishing along the Black River, and along some of the creeks. You can start backpacking at an easy-to-find place, called Buffalo Crossing, hike the Black River downstream, more than 20 miles one way of backpacking until you get to the rez boundary, after which you would need a permit. (Rez hiking and fishing permits can be obtained lots of places.) In the National Forest, however, there are no restrictions, no permits are needed, no parking permits are needed. It is good to tell the ranger if you will be leaving your car for some time, but you must make sure you contact him again after your return. If you start at Buffalo Crossing and hike downstream and you are also fishing you will be in a sort of hiking and fishing paradise, so no need worry about whether you might reach the reservation boundary--it's very unlikely!

Other White Mtn. backpacking trails which also have fishing are:
1) KP Creek trail, south of Hannagan Meadow.
2) Chevelon Canyon, north of Heber. Upper Chevelon can be accessed downstream of dam for Willow Springs Lake. Middle Chevelon, go to Chevelon Lake. Lower middle Chevelon, hike upstream from Chevelon Crossing (super swimming holes along this stretch!)
3) Bear Wallow Wilderness, access south of Hannagan Meadow.
4) The upper parts of the Little Colorado River, main fork, east fork, west fork and south fork all have some fishing, but may be marginal, especially s. fork. Lots of people (way too many IMO) go to East Fork Baldy trail, backpack in, fly fish the creek and also bag AZ's second highest peak, at about 11,500 ft. Gorgeous area despite the crowds.

June in Tucson can be brutal if you're not used to it. Why mess with all that heat when you could spend an hour driving up the Catalina Hwy. to Mt. Lemmon area? My fave trail there for backpacking is Wilderness of Rocks, but there are many other trails. Mt. Lemmon itself is over 9,000 ft, there's a meadow near the summit, ask locally which trails burned over badly in big fires. I hear that Wilderness of Rocks area is fine though, not too much fire damage. Lemmon Creek runs through the middle of it, there's your water, campsites near the creek, very pretty.

S. of Tucson about 1 hour drive are the Santa Rita Mtns. which also go up to over 9,000 ft. Some good summer hiking there, but start early in the day. Water in a spring on Old Baldy Trail. The Chiricahuas in the se corner of AZ are also very high, but too far away if you are at a conference.

If you plan on some hot desert hiking then hit the Romero Trail out of Catalina State Park. Start very early, hike up about 2.5 miles. Where the trail crosses the creek there are swimming holes just below the crossing. Ask locally if creek is running at the time you are there.

Rattlesnakes are not much of a problem. Keep your eyes open, don't put feet or hands where you can't see. They don't like hot direct sunlight.

Carry plenty of water, as you said, but also important to use some sort of electrolyte replacement if it's very hot. It's recommended you wear light colored clothing, t-shirt, not tank tops, wear shorts (unless bushwhacking), large floppy hat, sunscreen over your body even under the clothing. Replace sunscreen periodically. Make sure you snack often if you are drinking gallons of water--hyponatremia is a very nasty illness! A normal amt. of water to carry on a 10 mile hike in summer is a gallon or more. And drink the water! Do not let yourself get sunburned. It causes exhaustion and headache.

If you need any more info, feel free to let me know. Other folks will likely also add their 2 cents worth!

salish wrote:-Emergency notifications. Since I’ll most likely be hiking solo, would there be any clubs or individuals (hikers?) with whom I could leave a trip plan, itinerary and emergency contact info?

The only ones I trust are my next of kin, and I call them religiously when I get to pre-determined locations. You will most likely be in Apache County so have the Sheriff's Office Phone number handy, they will be the 911 service. I don't think it's worth getting lost in Apache County, they don't have cool helicopters.

You probably don't know this, but HikeArizona.com is the work of one person, Joe Bartels. If you want, you can make HAZ the beneficiary of your life insurance. But Joe is such an honorable guy he would probably send it to your next-of-kin and not share it with us. :twisted:

al1inaz wrote: You will most likely be in Apache County so have the Sheriff's Office Phone number handy, they will be the 911 service. I don't think it's worth getting lost in Apache County, they don't have cool helicopters.

No, ol' Sheriff Hounshell's Posse has fat guys on ATVs.

Apache Rescue Team (not to be confused with the Sheriff's Apache County Search and Rescue, AKA the Sheriff's Posse) used to do a lot of foot searches. I was active in it for years. It's a youth group. I have seen helicopters in use for searches in this county and in Greenlee County to the south. I think they were from DPS or Forest Service.

Thanks to all of you for such great advice, and fast, too! Some really great tips here so I'm saving it to the desktop.

al1inaz: Yeah, in re-reading my post I guess it does look like I'm seeking fishing advice rather than hiking advice, but that's not really the case. My happiness comes from just being out there (or up there). Fishing is just the icing on the cake, but I do take my ultralight raft and fly rod with me everywhere I go. As far as my life insurance goes, I would imagine my wife might have something to say about me changing the beneficiary
Thanks very much for your advice.

azbackpackr: thanks very much for your help. You gave me a LOT of info and I really appreciate it. It will take me a little while to digest all of it. I would like to PM you some time, if that is ok.

Thanks again,

Cliff
Seattle

salish wrote:-Emergency notifications. Since I’ll most likely be hiking solo, would there be any clubs or individuals (hikers?) with whom I could leave a trip plan, itinerary and emergency contact info?

A trick Dad taught me from hunting our hunting days - I leave a small yellow notebook on my front dashboard. It says "Emergency Info" on it. Inside is date and notification info. He figured if the truck had been there a week or two that someone would break in and call. The White Mountains in June is heaven on earth. If you can't survive a week or two - especially with a fishing rod for G-d's sake, you don't deserve to survive. (sorry, that's just the way it is). My Dad (rest his soul at Arlington) was a Navy fighter pilot and could have survived up there forever with a fishing hook and some dental floss (it's the New Year and I'm having some fond memories - so forgive me).

Let me know when you are coming and I might be able to find some fishing buddies for you.

PM me any time. If I can't help I'll refer you to someone else.

Elizabeth

It sounds like you are going to be more prepared than most out of state hikers that we deal with. I am a member of the Cochise County Sheriff's Department Search and Rescue Team and I doubt you will have any problems, but try to stay above 7000 ft for most of your hiking. The heat in late June is about as hot as it gets around here. The only problem with the high mountains in this area are the monsoon thunder storms that should be building by late June. As far as helicopters go, we use DPS Air Rescue all the time and it makes locating people much easier for us. Sticking to a planned hiking route and leaving information about your route on the dash of your vechicle is also a great idea as someone else has already mentioned here. One step further that makes tracking someone much easier is to have a good drawing of their boot print that we can find. GPS coverage and cell phone service in canyon bottoms can be questionable in Cochise County but that would be true in most places. Take lots of water because you will need it in late June and don't always plan on finding a water source.

Wreckchaser wrote:One step further that makes tracking someone much easier is to have a good drawing of their boot print that we can find.

Outstanding!

Wreckchaser wrote: One step further that makes tracking someone much easier is to have a good drawing of their boot print that we can find.

Cody Lundin recommends stomping on a piece of heavy duty aluminum foil. He calls it "The tin-foil tip-off". The problem is our soil is so hard & rocky that you need to put a towel or something under the tin-foil to get a good impression. See 98.6 degrees - The Art of Keeping your pumpkin alive! by Cody at page 117.

Wreckchaser,

Thanks for your well thought out advice. I've participated in two SAR events, and I've almost been the object of a SAR just this year. I've spent some time in hot country and I know water is so very important, as well as shelter (shade). This past summer I did a week long kayak trip on the Colorado, below Hoover dam. The canyons we camped in were stiffling and I guzzled water like a horse at a trough. I have a 70oz water bladder as well as a smaller one, and I'll bring both. I had never heard of the footprint idea, but it's a great idea (as is the tin foil idea). Thanks much. By the way, here is an emergency note that some people I know leave with their contact and/or on their vehicle: http://www.nwhikers.net/forums/uploads/ ... g_note.doc

Preston - thanks very much for the help.

Cliff

thanks for the link to the blank hiking note. Ive pasted it to my desktop and can fill it in and print out in a jiffy. Will take on every trip from now on..

In response to salish's reply:

The aluminum foil foot print is recommended for hikers with children but also works great for adults. A good flash lite is something else that everyone should have in the event that a day hike turns into a night hike back to your vehicle. If you have a GPS, mark your vehicle or starting point. You would be surprised at how many people just miss getting back and wander off for miles on some other trail. Arizona DPS Air Rescue crews fly at night with night vision goggles, so you don't need much of a light source to be seen by them at night if they are looking for you. I believe in carrying a lot of water and I know many people stress keeping the pack weight down. Water is going to weigh more than any other single item that you are going to carry, but as the day goes on and you keep drinking, your pack is going to get lighter.

"That's why my day pack always weighs 20 pounds or more"

Now I don't feel so bad about my day hiking pack weighing about 20 plus pounds. It seems like no matter how hard I try to lighten it up, all those little what if I need safety items keep getting put back in and the weight just stays the same. My Search and Rescue pack weighs in at about 35 pounds but can go up to 40 pounds depending on the mission and the time of year, so day hiking for fun doesn't beat me up quite as bad.

salish wrote:-Hike suggestions: this is a tough one because I don’t want to ask anyone to give up their prized hiking locations, especially if it involves pristine and fragile high lakes. But if someone could point me in the right direction perhaps I could ferret out these places in my own research.

Salish -Thanks for that SAR form.
I'll try to get this back to your primary concern - good hikes and good fishing.
HIKING
If you haven't already found the "Hike Indexes" check it out. Click on the Drop Down indicator to the right. Scroll down to "Rated" and Click on it. At the right of the "Rated by Members" banner is a Drop Down box showing "All Regions". Click on it, Scroll to "Alpine" and Click on Alpine. This will show you all rated trails in the White Mountain Region.
Scroll Down to Thompson Trail #629 and you'll get some good info about a great fishing hike. Click on it. To the right side of the description page you will find links to other hikes in this area.

5 Diamond hikes are the consensus best hikes by HAZ Members but 4 Diamond hikes and many 3 Diamond hikes are still awesome. Many hikes in this Alpine Region are not yet Rated but might still interest you. On the HAZ Main Page, click on the Arizona Map at the middle just west of NM border. This will give you all hikes in the Alpine Region - whether Rated or not.

One issue with this site is that it is so flexible that it can be confusing until you've clicked around a bit. There are innumerable ways to ferret out the same information. Hope this helps.

FISHING
Not listed on HAZ since it's not a hike (more like an attraction) but if you have time check out the Alchesay Fish Hatchery. http://www.snowflakemoulding.com/attract/alchesay.htm

and check in with Paradise Creek Anglers in Pinetop

Here is info on trout streams in the White Mountains. http://www.snowflakemoulding.com/attract/streams.htm

Hi - As I read your post, I immediately thought of Alpine and the Three Forks area and how badly I need to get back up there.

There was an article in Arizona Highway's 'Hike of the Month' not long ago that highlighted this area too.

Bryan

allin1az, thanks very much for the further leads and great links. I'm getting the hang of this system now and I really like the way you can navigate to almost anything with a minimum of clicks. I will definitely check out these links you have given me.

Bryan, thanks to you too, for the suggestions and links. That Arizona Highways link is really interesting, as is the map they give you in the "when you go" link. Nice....

Regards,
Cliff

In response to salish's reply:

Hi
I am from the White Mountains. The weather is great in the summer time,(very cool) you may run into afternoon rainstorms so take rain gear. I have never had any trouble with rattle snakes. Most trails do not require any fees at all, contact Forest Rangers for Apache Indian fees. Make sure you have off road transportation the rocks will blow tires (I should know I blew one tire coming back from Baldy area)
Have fun,
Butler

Butler, thanks very much for your reply to my post. As far as I know this trip is still on and I can always use the advice of you AZ folks. I appreciate your reply and suggestions.

Cliff