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Hi all. I am looking for some current updates on water availability at some of the springs like Bluff Spring, Charlebois, Dripping, LaBarge or 2nd water. I am taking a group of boy scouts out in a week and would prefer not to have to carry a bunch of water. i would rather teach them how to treat and be safe with water when hiking.

thanks.

There were small pools at Second Water Spring when I was there about a month ago I think there would still be water there. I was at Hackberry Spring two weeks ago and there was water flowing and it is drinkable. A group of people just completed a trans Supes hike so they should be able to post here about the conditions at some of those springs.

Labarge is good, flowing
Charlebois is nasty, but filterable
there is a clear pool near the end of Fraser Canyon, about 1/4 mile up from Dripping spring, which is nary a trickle.
1/4 mile up from dripping spring in Randolf there are nasty stagnant pools. Id pass these up.
Good pool in Fish Creek just off Frog Tanks trail.
Reavis had water at Fireline x-section

2nd water and LaBarge flow year round

Also on the Tonto National Forest website there is a list of springs in the Supes that had water during the driest time of the year. You might want to check that out.

This thread reminds me of my first Supes trip. I called the Mesa Ranger district to ask which sources might have water.

The answer: "None, there are no reliable water sources anywhere. There are some that might have water, but you shouldn't count on any of them."
"OK, then can I cache some water on the way in?"
"No, that's a federal crime and it degrades the wilderness experience for other users."

Depending on where you go, there is plenty of water in the Supes. You just have to be patient and willing to hike a ways. Maximum group size is 15. Don't take more, it's really uncool. Check this web site out for the most reliable sources. http://superstition-sar.org/downloads/s ... t_2007.pdf I can tell you that both Second Water Spring and Hackberry Spring had water in them as of yesterday, both had drinkable water. However, the Supes are famous for teaching people hard lessons about survival: yesterday was at least 95 degrees F in the middle of November and the springs were but a slow drip. If you are going there to "teach them how to treat and be safe with water when hiking" you might just learn a lesson yourself. That's why the man said there are no dependable sources up there. I always pack my own water and make sure to drink it all.

dudeman1st wrote:yesterday was at least 95 degrees F in the middle of November

hmmm, I... ah nevermind

I'm pretty sure that "teaching them to be safe with water" specifically means PACKING IN YOUR OWN. Don't rely on there being enough water for a group of boyscouts (and please observe the posted - and very legal - limit of 15 people). Besides, the animals that have to live out there need that water way more than a group of hikers. Please pack in your own water and leave the natural resources for people and animals that really need them. Going on a short overnight (or even two nights) does not qualify you as needing water; only as being too lazy to carry your own.

The guy just wants an update on water, not a life lesson on desert hiking. Let him do what he pleases with the info.

matt gilbert wrote:I'm pretty sure that "teaching them to be safe with water" specifically means PACKING IN YOUR OWN. Don't rely on there being enough water for a group of boyscouts (and please observe the posted - and very legal - limit of 15 people). Besides, the animals that have to live out there need that water way more than a group of hikers. Please pack in your own water and leave the natural resources for people and animals that really need them. Going on a short overnight (or even two nights) does not qualify you as needing water; only as being too lazy to carry your own.

Wow. I say let them drink the water. Don't backpacker's count as people who need the water?

There is so precious little water out there. Everytime we take the water, there is less (or none) for the creatures that really need it. Backpackers have the ability to carry what they need with them. Animals do not. I say reserve the natural resources for those in desperate need (backpackers/hikers that will likely suffer serious physical side effects from lack of water due to an accident or mishap - not by plan) and those that have to live out there and are not just visitors.

I do apoligize if my tone seem harsh, I mean no offense. But I feel strongly about diminishing a resource that could, with relatively little work, be conserved. It' s this whole attitude of consumption -on a larger scale- that has us paying so dearly (in dollars and lives) for a barrel of oil. I hate to make a slippery slope argument, but I think this one fits.

I have to disagree with you here Matt.

I agree that an atiitude of consumption is horrible for all people.

But when I think about people who consume water I do not think of backpackers filling up their 2 quart bottles in a spring.

You should be more concerned with the golf courses and lakes that are put up near the housing complexes and things like the Waveyard in Mesa.

You are absolutely right. The waveyard and the golf courses are more important issues. Unfortunately all I can do about those is vote my conscience and avoid using their services. Both of which are things I do. But it's the attitude "I'm only taking two quarts of water" that diminishes those ten or twenty quarts that were available. Water is precious in the desert. If you can carry it in you can save it for those in greater need. By your argument I should go ahead and drive to the corner store instead of riding my bike or walking. After all, it's only a little bit of gas, theres more to be had, I deserve it as much as anyone, so I'm going to use it. If I ride my bike or walk, I could save it, it could be one more little bit that's there when it's really needed.

I'm not great at communicating these things and often they come out sounding condecending or insulting, it's not the way I intend them. I love the desert and I hate to see it depleted. This is one of those things that we, as a hiking community, can actually make a difference at. Don't have a fire, carry your own water, don't pick up artifacts, and leave the pretty rocks. These are all things we can do to save our desert. I think it's important that we do them, even if it means we sacrifice something.

No I agree with you somewhat. Gas is something that one can survive without though. Water is not. We need water to survive period. I do not think that it matters whether the two quarts come from the Colorado River or Second Water Spring.
Just by living here in the desert we deplete the water source. The water that you suggest they pack in comes from the Colorado River which no longer flows through its own delta. Hows that for depleted? I think that we should focus on things such as taking shorter showers, having native drought resistant plants, fixing leaky pipes, using water for only washing drinking, cooking.

Matt, you don't do much backpacking do you?

I guess we should stay out of the wilderness all together. I'm sure we are affecting there breading habitats and scaring off the animals. Definitely shouldn't do any trail work to make it more accessible to people to enjoy there hike and steal the animals water.

-TIM-

Hey, you guys conserve all you want. As for me, if I'm hiking through the Supers, dehydrated and burning up like a pig in an oven, I'll tell you if I find a puddle of water I'm drinking it. You can get environmentalist all you want, but I'll be crawling out of there alive. The animals know where the year round water is.

matt gilbert wrote:Besides, the animals that have to live out there need that water way more than a group of hikers. Please pack in your own water and leave the natural resources for people and animals that really need them. Going on a short overnight (or even two nights) does not qualify you as needing water; only as being too lazy to carry your own.

Matt, we're buddies but, dude, this is a little over the top. The man just wants to know a reliable source of water. He didn't say he was going to suck it dry. Geez. On the recent Supes trip, 11 of us filtered water wherever we found it. I can assure you that you would not have been able to tell the difference between pre and post filtering of the water sources. Besides, I'd bet money that the animals in the Supes know far more water sources than anybody on this site.

Speak for yourself, I always try to drink all the water. If I see animals near it, I chase the critters down and suck it out of their mouths too. Those fish in Charlesbois? They get too much, so I personally drank 35 gallons out of the trough.

I also set up unnecessary cairns all over the place.

Now, why can't I find someone that likes to hike with me?

nonot wrote:Speak for yourself, I always try to drink all the water.

In my last post, I meant 11 of us with the exception of you. I didn't want to upset anybody.
The Supes trip got a little weird when you tackled some us and sucked the water out of our mouths! You should work on that. I have a sneaky feeling that's why people are a little uncomfortable when hiking with you. ;-)