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We're going to hike Barnhardt trail and camp in the small pocket of trees remaining near the intersection of Mazatzal Divide trail just past Barnhardt saddle. Recent rains have replinished the water supply on the Barnhardt trail falls (Hawaiian Mist & Big Kahuna). We are going to test some cold weather gear so bring a nice warm sleeping bag! Temps at this elevation usually range in the low 20's to high teens.


*according to new info found on the Tonto Forest website, the correct pronunciation is Mah-zaht-zahl. Interesting. ;-) Mazatzal is an Aztec word meaning "place of deer" but it is also a Paiute indian word for "place in between". Both cultures seem to pronounce it this way despite the local casino in Payson butchering the term. Simply say it like it looks.

Interested, I'll see whether or not I have finals on that monday (fingers crossed, if i have to cancel again im gonna be pissed)

You could make it a through hike :whistle:

Yep, I have some new stuff that's just itching to be "frosted". So we don't have to lug much water, but testing means you drag more clothes than you (hopefully) need. After being roasted a few weeks ago, it sounds like fun to challenge the chill!

#$*@! I've got a final on the 8th. Otherwise I'd go.

the correct pronunciation is Mah-zaht-zahl.

Probably written by a forest ranger who lives in Fone-ix

te-wa wrote:*according to new info found on the Tonto Forest website, the correct pronunciation is Mah-zaht-zahl. Interesting. ;-)

I'll have to contact the authors of all the geology books and journal articles I've been reading. They're all so careful to describe the local pronounciation.

Anyway, have fun. I'd like to get past Sandy Saddle again someday, even if it means a few miles of bushwhacking.

well it seems Ive been pronouncing it "wrong" all this time... and a friend of mine calls it Mah-ZAHT-zal, which is apparently correct, but then its in Aztec, so who knows?

From an article in I think it was AZ highways on Payson and the area as well as lots of people from the whole time that I have lived in AZ it is Mah zaht zal.... It drives me crazy hearing the way that they say it for the Casino. The AZ highway article was written in the early 80's. And since the 60's I have heard it that way. Just recently with the casino have I heard it other wise. Just like the way some people pronounce Preskit wrong. It was 28 in Payson this morning and HEAVY frost. There is another pretty good storm coming in on Friday-Saturday this week.

thanks Dawn. Presskit. thats the only way.
drives me nuts as well when people say sierra anchas.

I was looking for the spots you refered to since I have not hiked that area yet .. After studying the map for a while, I threw together a quick google earth kmz file at http://www.lotts.net/ken/Mazatzal-range.kmz
I am pretty sure I correctly located the "first big saddle" but it was just a best guess.
Anyhow.. that wuz my evening.. I have an office Christmas party that I must attend this weekend but your trip looks cool. Guess my new 5 degree WM bag will not get pressed into serious service yet.

Well it looks as if another wet storm is coming in on Friday afternoon and evening thru Sat.
From the NWS.
ANOTHER POTENTIALLY WET PERIOD STARTING FRIDAY AND CONTINUING THROUGH THE WEEKEND...

A STRONG LOW PRESSURE SYSTEM IS FORECAST TO DEVELOP OVER THE WESTERN UNITED STATES BEGINNING FRIDAY...AND THEN CONTINUING THROUGH THE WEEKEND. A VERY COOL AND MOIST AIRMASS WILL ACCOMPANY THIS WEATHER SYSTEM...AND LEAD TO PERIODS OF RAIN WHICH MAY BE HEAVY AT TIMES.

STRONG SOUTHERLY FLOW AHEAD OF THE SYSTEM ON FRIDAY WILL AID IN TRANSPORTING ABUNDANT SUB-TROPICAL MOISTURE NORTHWARD INTO SOUTHEAST CALIFORNIA...SOUTHWEST AND SOUTH- CENTRAL ARIZONA...RESULTING IN THE POTENTIAL FOR SIGNIFICANT RAINFALL. WINDY CONDITIONS ARE ALSO LIKELY FRIDAY...ESPECIALLY OVER SOUTHWESTERN ARIZONA...AS THE SYSTEM APPROACHES FROM THE WEST.

IT IS TOO EARLY TO DETERMINE EXACT STORM TOTAL PRECIPITATION TOTALS. HOWEVER...IT IS POSSIBLE THAT PERIODS OF HEAVY RAIN WILL OCCUR OVER MUCH OF SOUTH-CENTRAL ARIZONA...ESPECIALLY IN THE UPSLOPE AREAS INCLUDING WICKENBURG...CAVE CREEK AND A LARGE PART OF SOUTHERN GILA COUNTY. IT IS LIKELY THAT SOME LOCATIONS WILL RECEIVE BETWEEN ONE AND TWO INCHES OF RAINFALL DURING THE LIFETIME OF THIS WET WEATHER SYSTEM.

THERE IS ALSO UNCERTAINTY REGARDING THE TIMING OF THE HEAVIEST RAINFALL... BUT LATE FRIDAY THROUGH EARLY SATURDAY IS THE MOST FAVORABLE TIME FRAME. ADDITIONAL SHOTS OF HEAVY RAINFALL ARE POSSIBLE FROM SUNDAY INTO EARLY NEXT WEEK...GIVEN THE VERY SLOW MOVING NATURE OF THIS LOW PRESSURE SYSTEM.

THIS WILL BE A MUCH COLDER SYSTEM THAN LAST WEEKENDS RAIN MAKER...WITH SNOW LEVELS LOWERING TO NEAR 5000 FEET BY LATE SATURDAY NIGHT. HIGH TEMPERATURES OVER THE LOWER DESERTS THIS WEEKEND WILL BE COOLER THAN NORMAL...AND LOWER INTO THE UPPER 50S TO MIDDLE 60S.

Dschur wrote:Well it looks as if another wet storm is coming in on Friday afternoon and evening thru Sat.
From the NWS.

I dont happen to take stock in weather predictions. Thanks tho!

I pretty much believe weather prediction when they involve big systems. But I still want to go...

Only thing, can one actually get to a trail head after a downpour? Or drive away from it?

It gets muddy and somewhat deep during heavy rains. Just keep your momentum and you're fine.

The FS frowns upon using muddy roads as it tears 'em up. The good news with 419 is it's pretty level. Not in the area but don't attempt Tortilla TH as that road is slanted the last mile. It's flat out scary when iced

aw, cmon mud is so much fun! thats why tire guys make mud terrains.
I have some rain gear and plenty of high tech fabrics for layering and I never get to use them. Fingers crossed it lets loose on Saturday like we've never seen around here. WE arent askeered of a little wind and water, are we?
(i meekly suggest you bring the contrail)

Contrail, Schmontrail. I'm bringing the bivy with the PONTOONS! ;-)

here's some good news for us, or anyone interested in Chilson Camp.
March 05 report from hiker Bill Steber on fire damage: "Actually there is good news and bad news.
The good news is that the trail from Sunflower (Highway #87 @milepost #218 15 miles) to Mt. Peeley is in good shape. A crew could clean it up with a bow saw, shovel, and couple of pruning shears in a weekend. No real fire damage. The bad news is that your worst fears are true. The Mazatzal Divide Trail
(23 miles) is a disaster. I would have to say that less than 30% of the trail is in decent shape the rest is either; burned out, washed out, washed way, buried in downed trees, vanished or lost in man and animal trails, or overgrown in vegetation. With out your GPS tracks, maps and a compass there would have been no way I could have made that section. Thanks for letting me use them. There is no way a horse or bike rider could make this section. Dave Hicks needs to revise his Mazatzal website section, this is defiantly
not a "23 scenic miles" "generally soft to walk on". This section might need to be closed off until repairs are made. The Red Hills Trail (10 miles) section is in bad shape as well. I'd say that 60% of this sections is in good shape the rest is on its way to joining the Mazatzal Divide Trail. Even the road going down to the LF ranch has been washed-out in places so that it's impassable by horse. The fire burned a good portion of this section and well. Mary Ann said that the fire swept through that area in about 4 hours with flames over 100 ft high and it was 105 deg at midnight. That must have been nerve racking. Also some good news, McFarland Canyon was not damaged buy fire, Chilson Camp and Spring survived the fire as well as most of the Park."
I was hoping to obtain water from Chilson Spring, which is supposedly reliable, its been a long long time since Ive seen Chilson Camp/Spring. Cant wait!