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Wondering what HAZ members thoughts/opinions are on when it's appropriate to go off-trail and/or engage in bushwhacking? I'm asking specifically about the Superstition Wilderness areas, where it seems some of the trails are not well defined. Off the top of my head, I recall reading descriptions of (I think) Fish Creek Canyon where it's suggested to find the best available route. I gather this is because of boulder hopping. I'm always very careful to stay on trails, not cross-cut, etc., but desert hiking it's difficult to find the trail sometimes.

I'm going to head to Massacre Falls this weekend where it looks like it would be interesting to travel SE a bit towards West Boulder Canyon, but I don't see any trails in there. Is it appropriate to make my own trail assuming I'm careful to stay on slick rock, etc? (and know how to read a map/compass/gps to get back out of course) If I decide to blaze a new trail, should I upload the GPS track to this site? The last time I was at Massacre Grounds was probably 10 years ago, and at the time the trail was VERY faint. Looking at the descriptions now it appears it's well travelled.

I understand the need to go off-trail or bushwhack if one gets lost, but what about general exploring? Who is "in charge" of creating new trails in a wilderness area like the Supes?

Thanks,
Jonathan

jdsteele wrote:Wondering what HAZ members thoughts/opinions are on when it's appropriate to go off-trail and/or engage in bushwhacking?

If you are traveling in an area with no trails then obviously bushwhacking would be necessary. I think off-trail hiking is fine as long as you use common sense. If the area you are hiking is going to suffer high impact (erosion) from going off-trail, then don't do it. Mostly, the terrain in the Supes is hard dirt and rock. As long as you aren't trampling every plant in your path, I say go for an off-trail hike.

jdsteele wrote:Who is "in charge" of creating new trails in a wilderness area like the Supes?

Well, probably the Forest Service. But there are lots of variables to trail development depending on the area it is in and it's intended usage. I am definitely not an authority on this subject, so I'm sure there are others that can answer this much better than myself. In the Supes, some of the trails are relatively "new" and they were created by the Forest Service. Some of the trails are likely well-traveled "improved" versions of old indian trails. Some trails were created by miners back in the 19th century and some trails were just game trails that people took to hiking on.

I actually made a lot of that last paragraph up, but it sounds plausible!

I dont get it... there are hundreds of people in the Superstitions each month. Yet the trails that are on the maps sometimes arent even there (the area is prone to resisting erosion). I dont cosider going up Fish Creek to be "off trail". What the water and its natural course does to the canyon is a million times greater than your little footprints might ever do. I have finished all of the major trails in the western Supes and have in the past and will in the future go off trail just to add some places to my resume. Mostly canyons like Peter's, Randolf, Barks, etc...
besides, its a good thing to leave footprints, in case we have to come lookin' for you.

Just be smart about it. See some fragile looking plants? Cryptobiotic soil? Steep slope with crumbling soil? Don't go there. Minimize your impact. Stay in wash bottoms, if possible: the next rain will take care of any traces, like te-wa said. Bare rock is nice as well. I personally think that there's a big difference between cutting corners on switchbacks and going totally off-trail. Sometimes where you're going there isn't a trail. Follow game trails, step lightly, and think about not only what you're doing, but where you're going and how to get back. Desert soils are a lot more susceptible to damage than, say, the ponderosa forest of N. Az. from human traffic. Most of the hiking I do isn't on any trail: Painted Desert, cross-country on the Kaibab, up and down Houserock Valley. Just be smart about it, and it shouldn't be an issue.

As to who creates trails, I think Matt hit it on the head: the Forest Service (or whatever land management agency). Some have pretty strict rules, like the NPS at Wupatki: no off-trail hiking. Others, like the BLM and the USFS don't care where you go as long as its not marked "Closed" and you're not actively trying to create a new trail.

Jonathan - please do not go off trail and/or bushwack if you have determined you are lost. Search and Rescue organizations always use the trails in their initial search for you. Park yourself at a trail junction if lost and stay there! The only reason for leaving the trail would be to reach necessary natural shelter to protect you from heat, cold, rain or snow. And then you had better leave a significant sign of some type as to where you relocated yourself to.

Cattlemen and miners created the trails in the Superstitions and the USFS has only rerouted a few of them such as the trail up the east side of Miners Needle. There once was a jeep road from 1st Water to Weavers Needle and the Forest Service eliminated it. Also many trails abandoned by the ranchers have been removed from current maps of the wilderness and were never maintained by the Forest Service.

Bushwacking is the only way to have a true wilderness experience. Why would you want to follow where hundreds have trodden before you, except to reach a turn off point where you can see and experience what others may never see? Look down into Hackberry Springs. Hike (climb) up the little twisty canyon immediatly east of where Fish Creek flows beneath Apache Trail. Take yourself into Paradise Canyon - nobody has reported or provided photographs of that area on HAZ yet. Spend a day hiking upstream Pine Creek until you reach Reavis Falls - nobody has reported on that route either. Parallel trails as you hike - you will be surprised as to what you find. Indian, ranching, mining ruins and lots of natural wonders that those who are on the trails will never ever see....

So far I think these guys have covered it with some good advice. One other piece I would add; please don't build cairns or mark your route with tape. Lots of people feel the need to build cairns/mark their route with tape (sometimes even when there is a perfectly good trail to follow). Many times an abundance of cairns or markers can further confuse other hikers and lead to a proliferation of "social" trails. (since you are going to Massacre Grounds you will see exactly what I mean on the approach).Like you said; If you can use a map, compass, and/or GPS to navigate there without a trail you should be able to do the same on the way back out, if not you should seriously reconsider leaving the trails. Good luck, and happy hiking!

Thanks for all the great advice!

I didn't have a lot of extra time yesterday when I went to Massacre Grounds/Falls, so I didn't do any exploring, and the trail was mostly well marked and travelled. The only area where it got sketchy was up at the top just before you dip down again to the falls. As Matt says, there are alot of cairns up there, not all of them make sense. We saw at least three other groups, each of which was making their own path thru that section. I followed Joe's GPS track to the dot and made it thru with no problems.

matt gilbert wrote:So far I think these guys have covered it with some good advice. One other piece I would add; please don't build cairns or mark your route with tape. Lots of people feel the need to build cairns/mark their route with tape (sometimes even when there is a perfectly good trail to follow). Many times an abundance of cairns or markers can further confuse other hikers and lead to a proliferation of "social" trails. (since you are going to Massacre Grounds you will see exactly what I mean on the approach).Like you said; If you can use a map, compass, and/or GPS to navigate there without a trail you should be able to do the same on the way back out, if not you should seriously reconsider leaving the trails. Good luck, and happy hiking!

Not to digress, but since it came up...Am I alone in tearing down unnecessary cairns and other non-official markers I come across? I was out last weekend on a trail here near Tucson that used to be an FSR (e.g. - *very* wide and easy to follow) and it was covered with ridiculous cairns, little "stick figures", etc. All that stuff found its way back to the underbrush from whence it came...

you are definately not alone...

I snicker-n-laugh at cairns in single thoroughfare canyons but honestly wouldn't spend my time on cairn patrol.

Cairn Poll - viewtopic.php?t=226

Off Trail Poll - viewtopic.php?t=1123

I'm too unsure of myself to tear down cairns. I'll doubt my own route-finding skills before somebody elses.

joe bartels wrote:I snicker-n-laugh at cairns in single thoroughfare canyons but honestly wouldn't spend my time on cairn patrol.

Cairn Poll - viewtopic.php?t=226

Off Trail Poll - viewtopic.php?t=1123

I hear ya, It gets old stopping every few minutes to take them down. Luckily, must people are lazy and only build them right near a rock pile or other source of rocks so they can frequently just be kicked over back into the pile they likely came from. What really worries me is that (I suspect) the people who get comfortable with leaving structures, tape, and other stuff out there are the ones who later go on to do such dumb things as painting arrows on trees and rocks, etc. A few weeks after the Tucson Weekly listed "Finger Rock" as best hike in its annual "Best of Tucson" edition 2006 some wanker spray-painted massive orange arrows on two rocks at the junction between the stream and the start or the switchbacks on the trail.

Oops, I'm way off-topic, sorry. We now return you to your regularly-scheduled bushwacking thread...

Jeff MacE wrote:Am I alone in tearing down unnecessary cairns and other non-official markers I come across?

Oh geeze, by no means are you alone. My wife gets irritated some times when I stop hiking to kick over cairns in canyons or wash bottoms. I have no problem (as I have stated at other times) with simple cairns marking the path through difficult sections of trail. But few and small, not many and large. And in places like wash bottoms, and steep canyons, there's no need at all. Also, perhaps this is just me since I hike around ruins and rock art so much, I dislike cairns showing the way to ruins or rock art...I believe in exploration. Lots of ruins and rock art are easy to find along trails and/or canyon bottoms, and lots are hidden. Why not leave the hidden ones hidden for those who want to discover things on their own, huh?

PageRob wrote:

Jeff MacE wrote:Am I alone in tearing down unnecessary cairns and other non-official markers I come across?

Oh geeze, by no means are you along. My wife gets irritated some times when I stop hiking to kick over cairns in canyons or wash bottoms. I have no problem (as I have stated at other times) with simple cairns marking the path through difficult sections of trail. But few and small, not many and large. And in places like wash bottoms, and steep canyons, there's no need at all. Also, perhaps this is just me since I hike around ruins and rock art so much, I dislike cairns showing the way to ruins or rock art...I believe in exploration. Lots of ruins and rock art are easy to find along trails and/or canyon bottoms, and lots are hidden. Why not leave the hidden ones hidden for those who want to discover things on their own, huh?

I 110% agree!

I've kicked over a few myself, but usually leave them be. One of the founders of the So. Az. Hiking Club is well-known amongst most hikers in S. Az. for kicking over every cairn he sees. His name always comes up when hiking around Tucson when there are too many cairns. Maybe he has more time than the rest of us. I don't have time to kick them all down--in fact, I'm lucky to be out there at all these days. In some areas I think they are necessary, to keep people on a route in GC, for example and not have them trampling all over the cryptobiotic soil crust. A few of them to mark a generally used trail are okay. A lot of them are not okay, and to mark routes to ruins and 'glyphs not okay. Just my opinion.

A few weekends ago I was back in Pontatoc canyon on the switchbacks that snake their way up the south-facing wall above the canyon. Of all of the Front Range hikes, this is the one where I can almost be guaranteed to not run into anyone else after the the fork with Pontatoc ridge. That wasn't the case this time; as I plodded along enjoying the serenity these two bewildered coeds came stumbling down and said that "I shouldn't go any further" because they had followed the "Little rock piles" and got lost. I told them they were more than welcome to follow me as I was headed to Ventana, they asked what Ventana was, and the conversation pretty much ended. I kept going and passed the vista ridge where most people turn around and noticed that cairn trail leading west back toward Finger rock had materialized. There is a short social trail off that way, but ultimately the only thing over in that direction is a short bushwhack to a steep canyon drop-off, so I have no idea what someone was thinking. Then I got a little ways further on the actual trail and found that someone had taken huge pieces of down Palo Verde and Manzanita and piled them strategically in the trail near a large Jojoba shrub in an apparent trail obsfication attempt. It was pretty slick, it made it appear as though the trail ended near a rock outcropping back in there and it almost looked logical. He\she managed to make it look like the stuff was growing there and the trail lead to the rock. I might have fallen for it, myself, if I were new to that trail. I was running out of daylight but I probably should have taken the cairns out, too. I've seen oddball stuff like this in the past, but I have to say that this is the first time I was certain someone was trying to mislead people with trail signals. Someone went to an awful lot of effort to confuse the uninitiated. I'm ashamed to admit it but I found it kind of amusing... ;-)

Jeff