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Okay, this one is eating at me pretty badly now. Some friends and myself have been planning to hike the GC in the near future for a while now, and just started looking at specific routes to take. My idea was to take Kaibab down, camp the night, and hike back out Bright Angel the next day. My friend, however, has a totally different idea in mind...

He wants to start the hike early, take Bright Angel down to Plateau Point, make a u-turn, and come back up all in one day. I think he's utterly retarded to try that, but wanted to get opinions from the folks here to see what the general consensus is. Our group is hardly what you would call an experienced team of hikers. We've only started this little hobby recently after I began dragging everyone around to interesting places that I wanted to photograph. Our only experience so far is Flatiron (once... horrible horrible planning and results), Camelback 3x, Squaw peak 2x, and Fossil Springs. I just think it's insane to 1) try that much hiking in a single day, and 2) to go to all the effort of hiking the grand canyon without ever reaching the bottom.

Hey Thoreau,

First are you familiar with the whole permit system for overnighting? If not at the bottom of any GC hike page is the most current link to info. Basically you have to acquire the permits way in advance.

Also the South Kaibab is a corridor trail. At-large camping is not permitted on Corridor Trails; visitors must camp in designated campgrounds. Along the South Kaibab Trail, the only camping option is at Bright Angel Campground (CBG) located immediately adjacent to the Colorado River at the bottom of the canyon.

this time of year, as Joe mentions will definately need an advanced reservation. You may snag a permit via walk up at the backcountry office, but highly unlikely in April/May. THere are other sites considered "at large" campspots, they might be an alternative. If you do a walk-up permit day of hike, take whatever they have. Many of the trails down there are interesting and lead to wonderful places- my first GC hike was Grandview trail to Hance campsite. I did it solo, but have many many backpack trips under my belt. Make sure to be safe, know your limits and find out as much about the canyon as possible. It wont take long to be addicted. One or two trips to the bottom is usually enough.
just my $.02, hiking to fossil springs and squaw peak is not enough to train for a GC trip. Its like doing flatiron 3x in a row. Be ready!

As you know it's a lot easier to hike without a pack carrying gear for an overnight. That's a plus for a day hike. Based on your level of experience, from your log, it looks to me like you need to put in some additional training. If you're all set to do a day hike, going down Bright Angel to the 3 mile house and back will give you a good taste of the canyon. I've seen some very unhappy folks on the trails in GC and there is no bus to hop on! Once you're ready you may want to consider going down South Kaibab to Tonto Trail over to Indian Gardens and up Bright Angel. It's 13.8 miles and can be done as a day hike. Good luck.

I have a lot of friends who are inexperienced and therefore think they are capable of much more than they really are. I went backpacking for the first time last fall and took a friend with me, and he was insisting on staying out at least 3 nights, hopefully 4 or 5. I know that's a little different than wanting to do grand canyon in one day, but it's the same idea in the sense that inexperienced hikers don't realize what they are and aren't capable of feasibly accomplishing. We squeaked out two nights and had a pretty rough time with it.

In my opinion, it would not be any fun to do that, especially when you throw in driving time and the fact that you will be hurried. I wouldn't do it, but that's just me.

Wow, great info from everyone here.

I definitely agree on needing more trail time before attempting a GC trip of any kind (especially since I'll have 30lbs of camera gear in addition to whatever is needed for the actual hike). Trying to get the other involved parties to stop hosting 'dinner parties' and blowing off trail time in favor of spending more time outside is proving to be quite a challenge. We've already made Squaw Peak Summit Trail into a weekly event every Wednesday after work, and Camelback summit via Echo Canyon ever Saturday morning as well. Gonna be hitting Flatiron again this Sunday to boot. If I had my way, we'd be attacking Squaw Peak every Monday and Friday as well, but that's still a work in progress.

I was also thinking of planning some kind of overnighter in the superstitions (ie: something relatively close to home) to get some experience in that type of trip before heading to the Canyon. I'm sure it's one thing to talk about camping out, but something totally different to pull it off. Plus it would be nice to discover flaws in our logic/planning/equipment here instead of at the bottom of a super-mega-giant hole in the ground like the GC.

Joe: Glad you mentioned the permit matter. I knew that SOME kind of permit was sure to be needed, but hadn't looked too deeply into it so far. Guess that easily puts the trip date into at least Fall of this year, vs. squeezing it in before Spring ends. I'd hate to try the walk-up method and end up not being able to complete the hike after prepping and driving up there.

well dude even if you get skunked on the walk up permit, you can still do any number of hikes in the area (GC day hike, for one) like Kendrick Peak, Humphrey's, Inner Basin trails, Red Mountain, Painted Desert and the list goes on. Check out the "regions" map link for more ideas.
PM me and I'll give you directions on how to get a permit to the canyon, that works almost every time.

I find that going to the Grand Canyon in the off season was much more enjoyable then with the crowds. As opposed to my first two trips (once in May and once in July) I did my last trip in February, which meant no crowds. I was able to get a late start and my walk up permit, and we had the Campground all to ourselves. Try the Grand Canyon in the winter months, the temperatures will be much more comfortable and you'll deal with less people on the trail

And like Te-Wa said, doing Squaw once or twice a week isn't really enough conditioning, I'd recommend as often as possible and at least summiting twice to help duplicate the elevation gain

Like the others have said, I would abandon plans to backpack in the Canyon until you have more experience. The city hikes are not a suitable substitute when it comes to training for the Canyon. While I don't think the canyon is as hard of a place to hike as a lot of people make it out to be, I definitely agree that it is not the place to learn. Also, it is already getting hot down in the Canyon. Why not plan a Canyon trip in the winter when the temps are very pleasant?

I just got back from a 5-day trip in the Canyon that followed some very difficult trails. I don't plan on returning to the area anytime soon, if ever. I brought my camera gear including a tripod to be sure that I got the shots I wanted. My camera gear probably weighed around 8 lbs. If you carry 30 lbs of camera gear on an overnight in the Grand Canyon, I can almost guarantee you will be miserable. My tripod fell off a cliff on this recent trip, and I was secretly praying that we wouldn't find it, even though I hadn't gotten to the area where I planned to use it. We did find it though and I got some great shots, but it sure would be easier if I wasn't into photography.

Anyway, good luck. I'd check out some of the trips that te-wa mentions. They are in the Flagstaff area and will be in prime season very shortly.

te-wa wrote: PM me and I'll give you directions on how to get a permit to the canyon, that works almost every time.

Let me guess...apply via fax like everyone else?

Sorry te-wa, but I've got to give you a hard time about this. You've done 2 canyon trips and had to get your own permit for one of them. How exactly are you an expert at obtaining GC permits? Just curious...

ask Kurt, or Tim.
and I dont recall proclaiming to be an expert.

30 lbs of camera gear! Yikes! I carry a pocket Sony digital. It works just fine. Weighs less than a pound. I have even given slide show talks to the public using photos from that camera. I have also written numerous articles, illustrated with photos, for a magazine--same camera.

I agree with all of the above comments regarding training, problems in obtaining permits, trying out backpacking first in the Supes, doing short dayhikes in the Canyon before attempting longer backpacks. And doing some real peak-bagging for sure--Flatiron, etc. I would add: find out about super-ultra-light backpacking as it will make the trip so much more enjoyable. Some of these gearheads on this site are carrying about 20 lbs. total, including food and water, for a 3 day trip--there's a section somewhere on the site about gear lists.

(When I was a kid, the term "gearhead" referred to a guy who was always rebuilding his Camaro or GTO.)

Hoffmaster wrote:

te-wa wrote: PM me and I'll give you directions on how to get a permit to the canyon, that works almost every time.

Let me guess...apply via fax like everyone else?

Sorry te-wa, but I've got to give you a hard time about this. You've done 2 canyon trips and had to get your own permit for one of them. How exactly are you an expert at obtaining GC permits? Just curious...

Sorry had to laugh at that one. I pretty much agree with what everyone else said. The overnight would be a rough trip, especially with the 30lbs of camera gear and probably another 20-30 lbs of hiking/camping gear. If you added another night that would be MUCH more enjoyable.

Day 1: Hike down S. Kaiabab and camp at Phantom Ranch
Day 2: Hike up to Indian Garders on the Bright Angel Trail (4-5 miles) take a side trip to Plateau point if you would like (another 2-3 miles RT)
Day 3: Hike out B.A to the rim (4.5 miles)

If you want a taste of what it's like hiking in the canyon, load up your pack with your 30lbs of camera gear and all your other gear for camping, then go climb Squaw Peak a few times.

Like everyone else mentioned, you'll need to get the permit ASAP if you want any chance of getting one. My guess is they will all be gone already.

te-wa wrote:I dont recall proclaiming to be an expert.

You didn't. I'm just putting words on your mouth. I found your comment amusing, that's all. And I'm enjoying being the biggest hypocrite of all time. I've been to the Canyon a million times and I've never even once applied for the permits. So I have even less experience that you!

Well, this guy, Thoreau, is new around here, needs info. I have never gone to the Backcountry Office (BCO) to get a permit, because the way I do my trips is this: I drive up to somewhere in the Kaibab National Forest, near the Park entrance, and camp the first night (for free, off one of the Forest roads). That way I can start my hike very early. (Another thing I get from this is getting into the Park for free. I have always been ready for them to stop me on the way out to pay them, but they never do! Sorry, taxpayers! ) So anyway, I usually start hiking before the Park opens.

So, what follows is how I get my permit: I bought a used fax machine. I apply for my permit after midnight on the very first day that permits for the date I want to hike are available. This means June 1 for an October backpack. (I usually go in October.) The phone will be busy, busy, busy, you have to keep pushing the re-dial button, so make sure you have plenty of time when you are doing this. I have never been denied a permit, but truthfully have only hiked the Canyon about 14 times, although I do go on a different trail every time, so it may seem I'm more experienced in the Canyon than I actually am, having hiked on 12 named trails, plus numerous times to Havasupai (which is not in the National Park--until you hike to the actual Colorado--so getting permits for that is a separate topic.)

Ok, one more very important point about getting permits. On the application you are faxing you need to put several choices of dates and routes, campsites and trails. So if you are a beginner, that would mean you might choose among the following:

1. B.A. Trail to Indian Gardens Campsites (for a one-nighter.)
2. Grandview Trail to Horseshoe Mesa Campsites (water is a problem here--a half mile steep scramble to a spring, and back up again with all that water.)
3. S. Kaibab Trail to B.A. campsites (by Phantom Ranch) 1st night, with 2nd night at Indian Gardens campsites.
4. Hermit Trail to Hermit Creek campsites. (2 nights) On this hike you'd hike down to the Colorado on what we call the "layover day." You have a layover day when you camp two nights at one campsite. Water here must be treated.

On all of the above hikes, mostly the Park allows camping in the designated campsites only. There are many areas of the Park where you can camp at-large, but I think you need to start out with the above-named areas, which are known as "Corridor" and "Threshold" so I won't go into the "Primitive" trails.

I personally didn't do any of these on my first trips there, but these are the recommended ones. But I've been backpacking for over 35 years.

The fact I go in October and the fact that permits for April are probably gone should tell you something. Summer is too hot in the Canyon. You should hike the Canyon in summer ONLY if you are used to hiking in Phoenix in summer, every day, all the time, and you KNOW the heat doesn't bother you after you have hiked 10 or 12 steep miles with a heavy pack. If you are one of those hardy souls who hikes the Superstitions all summer long and goes out and runs 10 miles when it's 110. Summer in the Canyon is like summer in Phoenix. It gets up to 120 degrees and it starts in May and lasts through September. Most deaths in the Canyon are heat-related, and they occur every year. Heat stroke can kill you within a matter of minutes.

davis2001r6 wrote: If you want a taste of what it's like hiking in the canyon, load up your pack with your 30lbs of camera gear and all your other gear for camping, then go climb Squaw Peak a few times.

Said bag of camera gear was with me when I hiked Flatiron, Fossil Springs, and the first time up Camelback =) Although I've scrapped that in favor of my point and shoot for the frequent trips to Squaw Peak and Camelback as I'm really doing those trips more for getting into shape than anything else.