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So after convincing my mom to get me an REI gift card for xmas (early xmas : D) I finally finished out my gear to do some backpacking out in the supes. I'm looking at something probably along Dutchman's trail or perhaps by Boulder Canyon (contemplating camping on top of the lower half of Battleship). Here's my packlist:

-Osprey 40l (love this thing so far...so comfy)
-REI Bug Hut 2 (got this thing because of the price and the fact that with some homemade jerry rigging you can make a great 4 season shelter that's totally bugproof and when the weather is great you can sleep under the stars....also you don't wake up with humid stale air like a closed off tent)
-Tarp and stakes for wind/rain shelter
-Snow Peaks Gigapower Starter kit (stove, pot and spork)
-freezedried chilimac and eggs
-first aid kit (with snake kit)
-compass
-hiking poles
-tons of granola bars
-beef jerky
-flashlights (headlamp and regular)
-some thermals in case its cold enough
-REI 20+ bag
-REI pad
-3 litre camelback
-extra gallon of water
-My Green Trails and Beartooth maps
-Change of socks
-TP

Since this is my first backpack (man I wish my parents had put me in scouts ><) I wanted to get the advice of you guys and make sure I'm prepared for this. I know I don't have a filter yet but I should be fine with over a gallon and a half considering I'm not doing a full 2 days (only looking for about 10 miles max round trip).

Planning on probably doing this tomorrow or friday night if anybody wants to come along and perhaps show me the ropes : ) Just so excited to finally get to do more than just dayhikes out here in the Supes. Look forward to you guys advice. Also if you have any must do overnighters that are within the 10 mile roundtrip criteria I would love to hear them (also I have a Kia Rio if that factors into getting to any of these trailheads).

Some suggestions, pick up Iodine or Chlorine tabs for 4 bucks, its easier to carry 1 oz tabs and less water than lug around 2 gallons, which will weigh about 16 pounds
Drop the snakebite kit! Its winter now and I can pretty much guarantee you wont be seeing any snakes. And from what I have been told by various people the best thing to do with a snake bite kit if you ever get bit, is to not use it.

You will find on your first trip you overpack and in a year after you've gone on several trips, your list of stuff to bring will not be as long, and you will drop things that you never use after a few trips.

I suggest you join in on some of our trips, alot of people here have alot of ideas and suggestions on how to get pack weight down, and generally we go to some cool places.

Do your first few backpacks with short loops or out and backs. The goal should be to learn how to effectively use your gear the first few outings, not to see how many miles you can go. Don't test yourself against bad weather until you are familiar with your gear and what it can and cannot do. For example test your rain gear on a day hike when you know it's really going to pour. Take some time to hike off trail and learn how to use your compass and GPS before your life depends upon it. Have fun but be careful if your going out alone.

SuperstitionGuy wrote:Don't test yourself.. until you are familiar with your gear and what it can and cannot do.

..and what you can and cannot do!

Excellent advise for all & for me who has made all those mistakes in the past and more.. ;)

SuperstitionGuy wrote:Do your first few backpacks with short loops or out and backs. The goal should be to learn how to effectively use your gear the first few outings, not to see how many miles you can go. Don't test yourself against bad weather until you are familiar with your gear and what it can and cannot do. For example test your rain gear on a day hike when you know it's really going to pour. Take some time to hike off trail and learn how to use your compass and GPS before your life depends upon it. Have fun but be careful if your going out alone.

True, maybe do a shorter trip this time. Camp at Bluff Spring, Whiskey Spring, or Hackberry Spring. There's some great camping above Second Water Spring. Five hours out could easily get you ten miles each way, which is a bit much for your first trip, in my opinion.

Rally toad nailed it. MicroPur or Katadyn purification tablets (chlorine dioxide) are effecient, low cost (about 40¢ per quart) and weight next to nothing. About $12 for 30 liters worth of treatment. You can find various springs in the supes and after last week's rains there should be water pooled in all but the tiniest creeks. Save the filter when you have groups of 3 or more. The tablets are originally marketed for military use, and as such they are designed to prevent cholera, foreign viruses, and very nasty pathogens that you will not find in N. America. (think of a nasty green pond in a city like Dubai) use them half strength in other words one tablet for 2 liters of water. You must let the water rest and be "treated" for about 30 minutes, so plan for that.

set up your shelter at least 3 times in your yard. make sure you get a fair idea of footprint size so you dont end up with a sagging lame tent when you really need it. Also, this time of year there are no bugs to speak of. Id take a 8x10 tarp (or whatever size you purchased) and play with some configurations using one trekking pole, both poles, or none at all. You can search the web for various pitches like "a frame" "flying diamond" and "lean to"

And of course, the model of snakebite kits are most important. The Sawyer Extractor is the most solid unit. The Coughlan's should be donated to the Smithsonian as the biggest piece of crap ever invented. Still, many herpologists and medics claim that snakebite kits do nothing to extract enough poison and actually do damage to your tissue, making the snakebite worse.

on your first few trips, dont concentrate on too much on details. Get a bit of practice w/ your gear before you head out. Eat simple to prepare meals like Lipton noodles, ramen, peanut butter on bagels, and snacks. A handful of peanuts before bed will keep your engine running all night. Stay hydrated, it is the #1 prevention of being cold.
Please, respect trails, nature, and other hikers. Dont build a fire ring. FIND one.Dont camp on top of a spring that animals need to drink from. Dont break artifacts or trespass. Do enjoy yourself. Do take pics. Do scribble "HAZ" into the sand every hike you make. Also, never take food into your tent. Peace!

TOP FIVE must do-Supes trips in a Kia Rio:

1) Tony Ranch via the Haunted Canyon trail.
2) Superstition Ridgeline (not a backpack ;))
3) LaBarge Box Lower side via Boulder Canyon tr.
4) Reavis Ranch in late September
5) Peralta / Weaver's Crosscut / Terrapin loop

Just as a side note: Snake bite kits are a false security blanket. In order to be effective, they must be used in the first five to ten minutes after a strike where envenomation has occurred. They also frequently lead to further infection and aggravation of the injury because victims tend to panic and over-use the suction mechanism, etc.

te-wa wrote:Do scribble "HAZ" into the sand every hike you make.

Yes! Absolutely do that.

And save Lower LaBarge Box for after some more good rain. I did it in early spring this year, and I maintain that it's the most amazing place I've seen to date.

SuperstitionGuy wrote:Do your first few backpacks with short loops or out and backs. The goal should be to learn how to effectively use your gear the first few outings, not to see how many miles you can go. Don't test yourself against bad weather until you are familiar with your gear and what it can and cannot do. For example test your rain gear on a day hike when you know it's really going to pour. Take some time to hike off trail and learn how to use your compass and GPS before your life depends upon it. Have fun but be careful if your going out alone.

Ya sorry I think I meant to say 10 miles roundtrip not 10 hours. Still ya I'm mostly doing this for testing/getting used to equipment. Also I've been doing TONS of offtrail hiking the past few months (getting on the lower half of battleship, Coranado Mesa and a few other places)....I know how to read my maps very well and almost always know exactly where I am on the map. I do somewhat wish I had a GPS for a some more hardcore offtrails that people have coords for up here but alas the fancier equipment will come with time....at least I have my basics.

te-wa wrote:Rally toad nailed it. MicroPur or Katadyn purification tablets (chlorine dioxide) are effecient, low cost (about 40¢ per quart) and weight next to nothing. About $12 for 30 liters worth of treatment. You can find various springs in the supes and after last week's rains there should be water pooled in all but the tiniest creeks. Save the filter when you have groups of 3 or more. The tablets are originally marketed for military use, and as such they are designed to prevent cholera, foreign viruses, and very nasty pathogens that you will not find in N. America. (think of a nasty green pond in a city like Dubai) use them half strength in other words one tablet for 2 liters of water. You must let the water rest and be "treated" for about 30 minutes, so plan for that.

Ya I know about plenty of spots with good sized pools off second water and boulder/la barge canyon and that was before the recent rains so I should have very very little trouble finding water. Thanks for the $ saving advice with only using half the recommended amount. One thing though, do I need to use the tabs on my cooking water that I will be boiling or should that not be a concern?

set up your shelter at least 3 times in your yard. make sure you get a fair idea of footprint size so you dont end up with a sagging lame tent when you really need it. Also, this time of year there are no bugs to speak of. Id take a 8x10 tarp (or whatever size you purchased) and play with some configurations using one trekking pole, both poles, or none at all. You can search the web for various pitches like "a frame" "flying diamond" and "lean to"

Well I live in an apartment so I don't a yard persay to set it up in but I have put it up twice in my apartment. I've checked to make sure my footprint is the right size as well (about 3 inches smaller on all sides than the tent). Also I have an 8x10 tarp and actually have a really good idea of how to set it up thanks to somebody who reviewed my tent post pictures of their setup (and yes they had the hiking pole holding up the front ; P)

And of course, the model of snakebite kits are most important. The Sawyer Extractor is the most solid unit. The Coughlan's should be donated to the Smithsonian as the biggest piece of crap ever invented. Still, many herpologists and medics claim that snakebite kits do nothing to extract enough poison and actually do damage to your tissue, making the snakebite worse.

Good stuff to know thank you.

on your first few trips, dont concentrate on too much on details. Get a bit of practice w/ your gear before you head out. Eat simple to prepare meals like Lipton noodles, ramen, peanut butter on bagels, and snacks. A handful of peanuts before bed will keep your engine running all night. Stay hydrated, it is the #1 prevention of being cold.

Ya like I said I'm starting out with dehydrated food and tons of snack food. Ty for advice about staying warm.....I really didn't know being dehydrated could actually make you colder.

Please, respect trails, nature, and other hikers. Dont build a fire ring. FIND one.Dont camp on top of a spring that animals need to drink from. Dont break artifacts or trespass. Do enjoy yourself. Do take pics. Do scribble "HAZ" into the sand every hike you make. Also, never take food into your tent. Peace!

Ya I avidly practice "pack in pack out", even for others sometimes (kinda makes me sad how littered some of our trails can get, but I try to do my part). I've also been told by a park ranger before about the using existing fire rings rule, but that's if I even build a fire. Speaking of which, if I ever am in an emergency situation and do need to build a fire what are some good sources of firewood out in the Supes.....I know if I'm ever in Fish Creek and need any theres tons of dried out driftwood but I'm unsure about anywhere else.

TOP FIVE must do-Supes trips in a Kia Rio:

1) Tony Ranch via the Haunted Canyon trail.
2) Superstition Ridgeline (not a backpack ;))
3) LaBarge Box Lower side via Boulder Canyon tr.
4) Reavis Ranch in late September
5) Peralta / Weaver's Crosscut / Terrapin loop

Ya I'm really thinking over to the labarge box or up on the southern half of Battleship would be some good choices. Or possibly up on Freemont Saddle......would probably be some awesome sunrise views of the Needle.

rushthezeppelin wrote:I really didn't know being dehydrated could actually make you colder.

pro'lly 90% of hikers dont know this.
if im dehydrated i notice solid sleep is hard to get.
eat carbs during day for energy, fats at night for warmth. Drink water... but usually not right before bed or you'll have to exit tent 3x per hour.

regarding the Labarge lower box: i think the view from the top of the hill just before dropping into the canyon is one of the best in the Supes. while the hundreds of Peralta trail enthusiasts stare at Weaver's needle from the Fremont saddle area, you almost guarantee solitude on the Boulder Canyon trail w/ a much better view and its paved all the way!

I wouldnt camp right on the saddle as people will wake you up early in the morning, and you will have tons of company. But if you follow the spur to the cave trail there were a couple good campsites that were out of the way right at the start of the Cave Trail. Had good views of the needle too. That would be a really cool place to camp and a nice trip in my opinion. Up Peralta set up camp by the cave trail and then take the cave trail back in the morning after sleeping in.

rally_toad wrote:I wouldnt camp right on the saddle as people will wake you up early in the morning, and you will have tons of company. But if you follow the spur to the cave trail there were a couple good campsites that were out of the way right at the start of the Cave Trail. Had good views of the needle too. That would be a really cool place to camp and a nice trip in my opinion. Up Peralta set up camp by the cave trail and then take the cave trail back in the morning after sleeping in.

Ya cave trail is a fun one : P When I did that a few weeks back it sure honed my trail finding skills : ) Not a bad idea though for sure.....either that or I could go up by the lone pine and camp out there. I'm still thinking probably La Barge or Boulder area will be my best options so that I can just carry the tabs and shave off 8 pounds on my pack unless you know of some springs in that area that I totally missed.

te-wa wrote:

rushthezeppelin wrote:I really didn't know being dehydrated could actually make you colder.

pro'lly 90% of hikers dont know this.
if im dehydrated i notice solid sleep is hard to get.
eat carbs during day for energy, fats at night for warmth. Drink water... but usually not right before bed or you'll have to exit tent 3x per hour.

regarding the Labarge lower box: i think the view from the top of the hill just before dropping into the canyon is one of the best in the Supes. while the hundreds of Peralta trail enthusiasts stare at Weaver's needle from the Fremont saddle area, you almost guarantee solitude on the Boulder Canyon trail and its paved all the way!

What hill leading into Labarge? Are you talking about battleshipe mtn or something to the south of La Barge box? Correct me if I'm wrong but the La Barge box is the part where the larbarge canyon makes that S turn into the super steep cliffs right inbetween Malapis Mtn and Geronimo Head (almost looks like tall hoodoos surrounding it). If that is La Barge box then I can't think of what hill you are talking about.

On the Boulder Canyon trail the trail tops out high on a hill right before descending steeply into La Barge Creekbed. I think that is the hill he is referring to. It does have awesome views of Battleship, La Barge, and Geronimo Head, I think you can see the needle from there as well.

Personally, I think the view from Battleship Mountain is the best superstition view I've seen so far. You can see directly down into La Barge Box, Geronimo Head, Canyon Lake, Second Water Canyon, Boulder Canyon, Black Mesa, the Ridgeline, and Weaver's Needle. I've got to get back there when school lets out in a few days.

I have used the Sawyer Extractor kit many times for bee stings (Horton Springs this fall) and puncture wounds. Drawing out blood through a puncture wound cleans it from whatever was on the plant that you got stuck on. Helps the wound from getting infected later unless you have some other method to clean the wound. I always carry it when I am in the field. I also carry in this little kit the tool to remove ticks and a tweezer for removing cholla and prickly pear spines.

the hill you climb immediatly after crossing the street (az88) from the Canyon Lake Marina. On the Beartooth map it is labeled "2357"
when you camp at theentrance of the box near the mesquite tree, look south and you will see an unmarked trail called the Battleship saddle trail that will take you up to another great view into boulder canyon and other such glorious Supes formations. Then take the Boulder Canyon trail back to the Indian Paint mines,then follow LaBarge creek (off trail) until It comes to a big horseshoe bend and take the spur trail back up the hill to your vehicle. On the way in, you will notice this spur trail branching off to the right. It makes a good, fun loop.

rally_toad wrote:On the Boulder Canyon trail the trail tops out high on a hill right before descending steeply into La Barge Creekbed. I think that is the hill he is referring to. It does have awesome views of Battleship, La Barge, and Geronimo Head, I think you can see the needle from there as well.

Personally, I think the view from Battleship Mountain is the best superstition view I've seen so far. You can see directly down into La Barge Box, Geronimo Head, Canyon Lake, Second Water Canyon, Boulder Canyon, Black Mesa, the Ridgeline, and Weaver's Needle. I've got to get back there when school lets out in a few days.

I totally agree, the views on top of even the lower half of Battleship are bar-none the best views I've seen in all of the superstitions (the views of Horse Mesa from Coronado Mesa are a close second). I'm thinking that will probably be my camping spot for this trip. I'm thinking my plan will be to bring an empty 2 liter bottle with me and fill that up at second water spring and then head up Battleship. Unless you think I can get there, cook, sleep and still have enough water to make it to second water on my way back with just my 3 liter camelback. I usually only drink about 2 liters of water on a good full dayhike now (especially with the mild temps). Should I be on the safe side and grab the water first or stick to the weight saving strategy and grab it on the way back?

Take as much water as you can. 2 liters on a dayhike is one thing, your not out overnight, cooking, sleeping staying hydrated. When your done with the dayhike your back in civilazation.

Camping for involves a 32oz drink when I get into camp after the hiking day. 16oz for my meal, 2 8oz hot chocolates (with some booze) and try to drink another 20oz or so throughout the night. Morning is 6-8oz for a cup of noodles, 4oz for oatmeal, 8oz for a warm cider.

So camp for me totals about. 104oz, then whatever you need for the hike back.

Oh, and the REI bug hut and a tarp isn't going to make a true 4 season shelter. Maybe AZ 3 season, but your not going to want to take it camping in Flagstaff during a winter blizzard.

te-wa wrote:Rally toad nailed it. MicroPur or Katadyn purification tablets (chlorine dioxide) are effecient, low cost (about 40¢ per quart) and weight next to nothing. About $12 for 30 liters worth of treatment. You can find various springs in the supes and after last week's rains there should be water pooled in all but the tiniest creeks. Save the filter when you have groups of 3 or more. The tablets are originally marketed for military use, and as such they are designed to prevent cholera, foreign viruses, and very nasty pathogens that you will not find in N. America. (think of a nasty green pond in a city like Dubai) use them half strength in other words one tablet for 2 liters of water. You must let the water rest and be "treated" for about 30 minutes, so plan for that.

I wouldn't trust using purification tablets. I got giardia from chemical treated water. The doctor was saying that he gets several cases of giardia every summer from people water skiing.

In other areas frequented by hikers and campers, as well as places where many residents rely on untreated surface water, reliable prevention typically involves filtration with a filter that has a nominal 1-micrometer pore size. Most chemical treatment methods, including common point-of-use treatments such as iodine and chlorine dioxide, are considered unreliable in inactivating Giardia cysts.

The cysts are the things that live thru all kinds of things and the doctor says besides the filtration the only other way to get rid of it is a full boil of the water for 3-5 minutes.

Dschur wrote:

te-wa wrote:Rally toad nailed it. MicroPur or Katadyn purification tablets (chlorine dioxide) are effecient, low cost (about 40¢ per quart) and weight next to nothing. About $12 for 30 liters worth of treatment. You can find various springs in the supes and after last week's rains there should be water pooled in all but the tiniest creeks. Save the filter when you have groups of 3 or more. The tablets are originally marketed for military use, and as such they are designed to prevent cholera, foreign viruses, and very nasty pathogens that you will not find in N. America. (think of a nasty green pond in a city like Dubai) use them half strength in other words one tablet for 2 liters of water. You must let the water rest and be "treated" for about 30 minutes, so plan for that.

I wouldn't trust using purification tablets. I got giardia from chemical treated water. The doctor was saying that he gets several cases of giardia every summer from people water skiing.

In other areas frequented by hikers and campers, as well as places where many residents rely on untreated surface water, reliable prevention typically involves filtration with a filter that has a nominal 1-micrometer pore size. Most chemical treatment methods, including common point-of-use treatments such as iodine and chlorine dioxide, are considered unreliable in inactivating Giardia cysts.

The cysts are the things that live thru all kinds of things and the doctor says besides the filtration the only other way to get rid of it is a full boil of the water for 3-5 minutes.

Hmmm why does the Katadyn sodium chloride tabs I have say it does kill giardia and cysts??