HikeArizona.COM

I'm really surprised there is not a topic somewhere on the site for this TBH. I have never personally seen anything that I couldn't discredit as a plane but it's always been a subject I've been very curious about. I have heard that AZ has a very high incidence of sightings, especially in smaller towns and out in the backcountry. Just curious if anybody on the site has seen anything that they thought would fall into the category....seems like there would be somebody.

There have certainly been several interesting sightings over the years that have later been explained: I'm thinking of a couple of rocket launches from White Sands that caused some news across the state; and some that haven't: anybody here witness the "Phoenix Lights"?

The only truly "unidentified" object I have ever encountered was in upstate New York, and years later I was mostly convinced that it was actually a very rare feature of the aurora borealis. But I still wonder sometimes...

chumley wrote:anybody here witness the "Phoenix Lights"?

Unfortunately I have only lived here for a year and a half so I missed the lights. One of my friend's brother lived here then and he for some reason believes the military's flare explanation. I have done lots of research on the lights and seen a documentary. I don't understand how you can call them flares when you compare the video of the lights to video of past flare exercises. Separate flares don't hold structure like the lights did, even in very low winds. The movements the lights did make were very smooth and not at all erratic like flares. Finally you don't see the balloons the flares are attached to.

Sorry if I kind of ranted for a bit but that's why I believe the lights are real. Not saying it's aliens exactly though. It's hard to believe our government would have technology that can produce some of these sightings, but I'm sure people who saw the B2 Stealth Bomber and the SR-71 said the same things before they were disclosed. However I do believe there is life out there in the universe but that's just because of mathematical chances that the conditions would exist somewhere out there. It is a bit harder for me to believe that extra-terrestrial life has developed technology to be able to traverse even inside their own galaxy within a human lifetime (granted who knows how long aliens live : P). In order for us to see anywhere beyond some of the closest stars we would have to develop technology that surpasses light speed travel and the only way to accomplish that is to create a wormhole or fold of the space time continuum (Dune basically nailed it straight on besides the fact that I doubt a "spice" could create the power necessary to do this). Who knows what kind of power sources an alien species could be harnessing though. If a certain physics theory called string theory were to be proven true (which the new Hadron Collider that was in the news recently could prove or disprove) then there could be an immense energy field that could someday be harnessed for almost limitless amounts of energy.

As you can see I'm a bit of a physics nerd : P

rushthezeppelin wrote:It's hard to believe our government would have technology that can produce some of these sightings

I don't find that hard to believe at all. I don't think the government would have any reason to keep us up to speed on their technological advances. As long as we're entertained, well fed and happy, the majority of the population won't question a single thing they do. I can't even begin to fathom all the crazy stuff that's going down to which I'm completely oblivious, and I'm darn glad, too (although I wouldn't mind knowing if aliens existed). But really, lets assume for a second that extra-terrestrial life has visited the earth, and "the government" knows it. Would it be in anybody's best interest for them to release that information? I don't think so. The general public couldn't handle that sort of knowledge. It would detract too much from the huge sporting events that REALLY matter.

rushthezeppelin wrote:However I do believe there is life out there in the universe but that's just because of mathematical chances that the conditions would exist somewhere out there.

I agree, and I also think that we're not that special. In an endless and constantly expanding universe, I couldn't possibly think earth sustains the only forms of life anywhere. All we really understand is what's on this planet. Our bodies work under these conditions. But are earth and it's neighboring planets really a fair representation of what exists elsewhere in this humongous universe? I don't think so. There has got to be so much stuff out there we haven't heard of because earth can't sustain it. Why should life ONLY be based off carbon? Why should ALL life need oxygen? Just because that's how we live on earth?

rushthezeppelin wrote:It is a bit harder for me to believe that extra-terrestrial life has developed technology to be able to traverse even inside their own galaxy within a human lifetime (granted who knows how long aliens live : P)

Exactly... Human's have only been around for a fraction of the time of the universe (depending on what you believe), and look at our great technological advances in that little bit of time! Plus, just because we're the smartest species on earth doesn't mean we're the smartest in the universe. We're limited by how well we think, and maybe other forms of life are just much smarter than we are.

Just my two cents. I'll talk about ghosts, too, if you want

In response to azpride:

As I stated past disclosures the government has made have awed the American people in the past so I can't put it past them to have wild technology. Also agreed, the majority of civilization would probably be overwhelmed if stuff like this was produced by humans. I think most feel more comfortable if they think this is alien technology (which for all we know it could be alien technology that we've adapted.....some people will try and say this is how we got micro-wave ovens and exotic materials such as Mylar).

You say endless and constantly ever expanding universe.....problem is it can only be one or the other : P Sorry physics nerd....I think I've heard of studies where they think silicon based lifeforms could form nearly as easily as carbon based. BTW not all life needs oxygen.....some need CO2 : P

Ya I seriously doubt we are the smartest species in the universe.....we do at least know that given advance enough technology that a species could in theory fold space-time and be able to basically instantaneously travel anywhere in the universe (I kinda wonder how you would control the destination of a worm-hole though.....don't think anyone has come up with an explanation on how that would work in theory).

And yes I could talk about ghosts too : D ....I actually have a tad bit of first hand experience with that (although I would classify my experience as more an encounter with a banshee....witch ghost).

rushthezeppelin wrote:In response to azpride:
You say endless and constantly ever expanding universe.....problem is it can only be one or the other : P Sorry physics nerd....

Why can it only be one or the other? just curious. Can't it be growing infinitely?

jkern15674 wrote:

rushthezeppelin wrote:In response to azpride:
You say endless and constantly ever expanding universe.....problem is it can only be one or the other : P Sorry physics nerd....

Why can it only be one or the other? just curious. Can't it be growing infinitely?

Endless implies it is already infinite. Expanding implies it has an end....granted the end is constantly expanding but it's there. Also if I'm not mistaken according to general relativity a few rules of physics change depending on which type of universe we are in (kinda rusty on general relativity but I'm pretty sure this is correct......I think depending on which is true it denotes the driving forces behind gravity or something).

I've seen a UFO. It was years ago in California ... it consisted of a bunch of weird green lights that moved back and forth across a small patch of sky. There's no way it could have been anything manmade. Of course, that doesn't mean it was aliens, either. I dunno what it was. I didn't see anything in the news about it later, so maybe it was just me ...

I agree with you guys about life throughout the universe ... I don't think for a second that life only evolved in one place out of the entire universe of 42 bazillion gazillion stars. But I don't think it's a given that there's alien life somewhere more intelligent than we are.

Alien life would have had the same amount of time to evolve that we have, with the same laws of physics and chemistry. I would also assume that natural selection would work more or less in the same way. If that's true, then alien life forms don't necessarily have to be smart, they just have to be adapted to their conditions. Intelligence isn't the only adaptation that works.

And I'm an anthropology nerd

A long time ago (1990s) I was in Tampa, Florida watching the night sky with my then girlfriend's family. We saw two bright lights (brighter than Jupiter) pass slowly overhead in formation, they seemed to waiver erratically. My first thought was why are those satellites following each other so perfectly, and why are they so bright - if they aren't satellites, what are they, and why do they move like that???

As the family argued over what we had seen, one of the neighbors came over informed us that the shuttle and MIR had just passed over-head. Which were much larger and much closer to earth than just about anything else in orbit - which explained why they were so bright and large. It was an odd experience, I'm guessing the erratic movement was either an optical illusion or light refracting in the atmosphere. If we hadn't been told what we had seen - that experience could have led me to some "alien" beliefs.

I agree that we're probably not alone in the universe. It's just too big, too old , and there are too many stars: the odds just seem to favor at least a smattering of life throughout the cosmos. But I also believe that a majority of the sightings have more to do with military testing, natural phenomena, weather balloons, satellites, etc. The rest are likely hoaxes or drug/alcohol related. Okay, so maybe a couple of them could have been real - I just don't get why anyone would travel here from another solar system on a regular basis. The one person I've talked to who's sworn to have seen a flying saucer, also freely admits to regular use of acid.

I never did talk to the "fire in the sky" guy at work about his experience (yes he was/is a white mountains local) - kind of wish I had before he retired.

Strand wrote:I just don't get why anyone would travel here from another solar system on a regular basis.

Same reason we have to spend tons of time observing species out in the wild. Who knows maybe there's some TV show on another planet about our planet and the crazy things that go on down here Perhaps we are part of some grand science experiment. I'm sure other sentient beings would share our desire to explore and gain all the knowledge we possibly can. Perhaps it's like star trek and they are waiting for us to invent our own form of intergalactic travel so that we can join a "Federation" of other alien species : P Perhaps they are there as to protect us from nuking the planet to hell one day. Who knows...

Also about the whole MIR Shuttle sighting thing. It's odd that it would move in an erratic way as you described. I have seen a handful of satellites in the past and they always seem to be moving on a very straight path with a very steady pace.....it should appear slowly fading in and then out as the solar panels slowly angle towards your position on the ground then back away.

I don't believe the Phoenix Lights were extraterrestrial in origin, and I'm one of those people who believe in alien spacecraft and sasquatches. I've seen similar things a few other times, and I can't believe that they're alien spacecraft.
I've seen some very interesting things in the Arizona night sky, but I'm willing to bet that they're all manmade.

rushthezeppelin wrote:Who knows maybe there's some TV show on another planet about our planet and the crazy things that go on down here

I can see it now: Tonight on Mutual of Omaha's Wild Universe ... we visit Planet Earth's desert outpost of Scottsdale to witness the fascinating courting rituals of middle-aged human men as they seek to mate with unnaturally enhanced young females who have just recently departed their parent's protective nest. Now ... for the first time in HD!

But seriously (well, sort of), I think there's enough Jerry Springer episodes bouncing around the various TV satellites orbiting our planet that any other life out there will know to avoid this place...

desert spirit wrote:If that's true, then alien life forms don't necessarily have to be smart, they just have to be adapted to their conditions. Intelligence isn't the only adaptation that works.

Well put!

I always think of the star Trek Movie about whales and time travel.Spock says something close this"It is only human arrogance that limits the thinking that aliens life forms would only wish to contact humans" Based on the same thought We could just be a petri dish being studied to see if we are the disease or the cure.

I can't find any reality show that can keep my interest for more than 5 mins, and I'm human. If another culture actually finds us entertaining, the universe is in deep trouble. Of course, maybe they see it as more of a Greek tragedy. You just can't turn away because at any moment you're sure one of the characters will do something ironic and foolish...kind of like cops.

courting rituals of middle-aged human men as they seek to mate with unnaturally enhanced young females

All my enhancements are quite natural, thank you very much ...

chumley wrote:courting rituals of middle-aged human men as they seek to mate with unnaturally enhanced young females

in Scottsdale? say it aint so!

dont forget the "courting rituals of Rich Older Women in Jaguars (ironically called 'cougars') chasing single, adventurous young 'uns."
I saw a UFO once out on the Upper LaBarge Box area. It was glowing under a star filled night sky with some very eerie lighting system. The closer I got, I could make out voices, not audible enough to determine what language or even if they were human, I encroached ever so cautiously. Upon closer inspection, I was dissapointed to realize it was a couple wearing headlamps inside an MSR tent.
Those dang tents sure are a strange color of Orange, arent they?

PageRob wrote:

desert spirit wrote:If that's true, then alien life forms don't necessarily have to be smart, they just have to be adapted to their conditions. Intelligence isn't the only adaptation that works.

Well put!

Thank you, Rob. I value your opinion (as I do many others here), so I appreciate it.

I was thinking about this question some more and it seems to me that intelligence isn't going to be the most likely evolutionary path for "advanced" alien life at all. Evolving a human brain is surely far more difficult and unusual than evolving the life strategies of, say, insects. Insects have been around for hundreds of millions of years ... you'd have to call them very "advanced", in the sense of "well-adapted".

And yet no insect is going to build a spaceship to the stars. The point is that alien life could be extremely "advanced" and yet not have the capability of visiting Earth, or even of responding to radio signals.

It took very unusual and unique conditions to evolve a human brain. Who knows if it happened somewhere else in the universe, even if otherwise "advanced" life is all over the place?

desert spirit wrote:courting rituals of middle-aged human men as they seek to mate with unnaturally enhanced young females

All my enhancements are quite natural, thank you very much ...

Either way, its not relevant since I believe you are far too intelligent to qualify for their courtship pursuits anyway.

I'm not sure about the word "advanced." It could be used to describe a species that is able to adapt to a wide variety of environments (like humans....and roaches), or it could describe a species that has undergone significant evolutionary change from its distant ancestors.

We may be "advanced" because we can adapt to any environment on earth. However, how advanced are we considering that we typically degrade or destroy the environments we adapt to?
If we are a one-in-a-billion species for this planet, then mathematics tells us that it is very likely that there are other species out there that are at least as adaptable (and able to create- and use technologies) as us.

As for cougars, I'd much rather have to deal with them than rainbow trouts. I doubt an alien television producer would be that interested in the lame-o Scottsdale scene that's full of cougars, trouts, bolt-ons, bad tattoos, $30K millionaires, and $75 t-shirts. However, I'd wager that alien audiences would be very interested in 'Cops.'

Alien Audience Feedback:
"That guy was apprehended for smoking 'rock?' How do those apes smoke rocks?"
"I thought they were apes instead of pigs?"
"Why does that 'mobile' home look like it never moves?"
"How come men who live in Texas don't seem to wear shirts?"
"What are the Oakland Raiders, and why does it seem as if criminals like to identify themselves as such by wearing paraphenalia from that team?"

Those of us who are regulars on this site are faaaar too normal to be interesting to aliens. :whistle: