HikeArizona.COM

Hey everyone. I just purchased a Garmin 60CSx, and am trying to learn the ins and outs. I was wondering what people here find most useful for navigating during a hike. Do you use a straight track? Do you create a route from a track? Waypoints? I think I finally understand what all of these different things are, and their differing functionality. What I'm wondering is: What does your "workflow" look like when planning a hike? From finding a GPS route on the HAZ website, to laying things out on the computer, to downloading the route to your GPS receiver, to actually navigating the trail? And what combination of waypoints, tracks, and/or routes do you find most useful?

Also, I'm having trouble opening GPX waypoints, downloaded from HAZ, in Mapsource. Does anyone know why this might be?

Thanks Joe for this incredible resource. HAZ is always my first stop when looking for my next adventure.

Did you ever get the KML files to work? If not I'd really appreciate a copy of the file you are downloading.

Sorry I didn't respond to that. It was any KML file that I tried to open. None of them would open. But now they all work. I take it you tweaked something?

It only took me 9 months to learn this much, I really hate to deprive you of the experience.

Heres how I do it. I"m writing this from memory so it may not be exact, others will chime in I'm sure or I'll check it when I have the GPS unit handy.

1) Download the TRACK from HAZ in gpx format to the computer.
2) Connect the 76Csx to the computer, turn it on, set it to "use with gps OFF" AND turn "TRACK LOGGING OFF"
3) Open the file just downloaded in MapSource
4) Transfer it to the receiver.
5) Ensure that the TRACK is listed on the receiver and that is shows up on the map.
6) Turn the receiver off and disconnect.

7) Drive to the TH. Turn the receiver on and clear anything showing in the statistics page.
8 ) Open the TRACK you loaded at home. Be sure TRACK logging is ON.
9) Start hiking. You should be laying a track in on top of or very near the track showing on the unit.
10) Return to TH. turn tracking off.
11) Drive home

(If you partook of the requiste Mexican food and beer/tequilla etc. you may want to add a night's sleep here, if not, proceed to step 12)

12) Connect unit to computer, open MapSource, and transfer TRACKS to the computer.
13) It will likely download all the tracks on the unit. You may want to delete the one you downloaded from HAZ so you are working only with the one you created on the trail. Clean up any miscellaneous data points from lunch breaks, potty stops, getting lost, etc.
14) If it's a nice clean route better than what is on HAZ, upload it with witty commments and observations.

If the file is bigger than the data point limit of your GPS receiver (76CSx has a 500 data point, and 20 file, limit) there is a work around.

Insert after 4 above:
4a) In MapSource, open the file, open the TRACK, then open Properties.
4b) Rename the TRACK as "ACTIVE LOG" without the "" of course.

Insert after 5 above
5a) Rename the TRACK on the receiver, using the pop up key board (or whatever your device allows) if you want it renamed.

Thanks for the response. So you use the track itself? You don't create a route from the track before you hit the trail?

Thanks for the workaround for dealing with the trackpoint limit. Not sure what the limit is on the 60CSx, but that might come in handy.

Sweet Shawn, if some other 76/60 members could chime in and either confirm or enhance I'll get this put in the FAQs. Then we'll have something more than Oregon/Colorado FAQs.

If anybody has Magellan Triton 400 instructions for HAZ PLEASE post, we have members in need.

"It only took me 9 months to learn this much, I really hate to deprive you of the experience."

I know. I have to say, this stuff is a lot more complex/confusing then I imagined it would be. But everything is nowadays.

joe bartels wrote:if some other 76/60 members could chime in and either confirm

Confirm....the only difference for me is number 2 I don't set it to gps off mode...maybe I should

Thanks for the replies. I'm a little confused about the use of routes. I'm not sure what the point of them is exactly. Seems like a track does the same thing, but is more exact.

LARichardson73 wrote:Thanks for the replies. I'm a little confused about the use of routes. I'm not sure what the point of them is exactly. Seems like a track does the same thing, but is more exact.

Routes are useful for driving, especially if you have an auto-routing GPS. A track is more trail-friendly, but once upon a time, saved tracks weren't so easy to find. Also, some tools (like National Geographic TOPO) don't deal well with tracks.

rlrjamy wrote:

joe bartels wrote:if some other 76/60 members could chime in and either confirm

Confirm....the only difference for me is number 2 I don't set it to gps off mode...maybe I should

"Turning off GPS" may be superfluous to the task but I do it in an attempt avoid that long straight track from my kitchen table to the TH.

Sredfield wrote:"Turning off GPS" may be superfluous to the task but I do it in an attempt avoid that long straight track from my kitchen table to the TH.

There must be something wrong with your GPS. The track starts at my kitchen table.

Thanks big_load. That's pretty much what I thought. Tracks make more sense for trails. I think I'll probably just end up using the downloaded tracks, and set waypoints along the way for trail junctions and important points.

I just thought maybe I was missing something, because the default answer to this question seems to be, "Routes are for where you are going, tracks are where you've been"

It's funny that you guys mention the trail back to your kitchen table. I haven't even used the GPS on a hike yet, but it had already occurred to me that I would probably forget to turn off tracking, and have a trail leading back to the house.

joe bartels wrote:Sweet Shawn, if some other 76/60 members could chime in and either confirm or enhance I'll get this put in the FAQs.

It would be great to have a "final flow steps agreed-to edit" of Shawn's 1-14 steps posted in our HAZ's FAQ section for our Garmin 60/76/eTrex units (I do believe the eTrex Vista & maybe Legend can be safely added to this Garmin 60/76 flow steps, but nonot or someone else can confirm or further comment).

Shawn's a quick learner for only 9 months . I purchased my very first GPS, a Garmin 60CSx, in early June'08 and now after ~1.5 yrs of dedicated interest and use, I am still learning and still having some moments. I spent this morning reviewing all Shawn's well stated 1-14 steps and to refresh my memory regarding a few of them, I used Bob's (rlrjamy) recent posted 1/15 GPS Route for Inner Basin Tr#29 (with 964 data points) to move this Route fm HAZ to my computer file and Garmin MapSource Program, then move it from my computer MapSource to my GPS 60CSx using some different options/tools available in MapSource. So, now my observations/comments on the 1-14 steps for HAZ FAQ:

1).. If you have MapSource loaded on your computer, you can download from HAZ by just OPENING the file from HAZ in .gdb format or as Shawn states you can "Download the TRACK from HAZ in gpx format to the computer" then you can open this saved file from MapSource;
2).. Agree (I find it very important to "use with gps OFF" and to always after the end of a hike and at home having the track screen logging set to OFF);
3).. Agree;
4).. Agree with the following comments FYI- If the file is bigger than the data point limit of your GPS receiver (60/76/eTrex has a 500 data point active log limit and a 20 file "saved tracks" memory limit) there is a work around as state by Shawn in steps 4a & 4b; IF the track being downloaded to the receiver is equal to or less than 500 points then it will download to the saved tracks memory file section on your receiver, then you can apply Shawn's step 5a; IF the track being downloaded to the receiver is 501 points or larger then it will download to the receiver active log (having previously applied Shawn's steps 4a & 4b); ALSO NOTE: When the downloaded track resides in the active log you cannot change the track color to be a different color from this same hike track you plan to later follow (ie, it is easier to follow a different color track on your screen).. to solve this issue if it's important to you like it is for me, you can apply one of the two following options: option 1- save the file from the active log to the saved tracks file and understand that doing this will reduce the total file data points to a 500 point max limit in the saved tracks file but now you can change the file name and change the color of the track; Also, now that you have saved it in the saved tracks file, you can now go up to the active log file and clear it out;
option 2- in the tools section of MapSource (at top of page), learn how to use the "Track Divide" tool.. this way you learn how to take a 964 data point track (as noted above) and make two track of it, both tracks being less than 500 data points so when you download these from MapSource to your gps receiver both tracks go into the saved tracks section of your GPS (now you can rename them and change the track color, but most importantly you retain the total number of 964 data points in the two tracks; You would apply this same logic if the to be downloaded track had say 1500 data points- here you would use the "Track Divide" tool to make 3 tracks of 500 points each), and etc...
5-6).. Agree;
7).. Drive to the TH. Turn the receiver on and clear anything showing in the "Trip Computer" page.
(Note- it is important that the correct "Trip Computer" page menu options are noted with a check mark prior-to "Trip Computer" page reset:
Reset Trip Data, Reset Odometer, Reset Max Speed, Reset Elevation Data, Reset Max Elevation);
8-9).. Agree;
10).. Return to TH: turn tracking off (very important to remember); Turn unit off too! ;
11-14)..Agree;

.. I have spent hours on this today and just realized I am now missing a major play-off football game

Thank guys from all the people that will never thank you. Okay here's the condensed version. Still a little too wordy for my taste and I'm not sure the Unit to HAZ section really helps them know what buttons to press or menu items to select. Boy that 500 point thing is a royal nuisance.

HAZ to 60/76/eTrex
1) Download .gpx TRACK from HAZ to computer (or just OPEN .gdb if MapSource is open).
2) Connect the GPS Unit to the computer, turn it on, set it to "use with gps OFF" AND turn "TRACK LOGGING OFF"
3) Open the file just downloaded in MapSource (if .gpx)
4) Transfer it to the receiver.
5) Ensure that the TRACK is listed on the receiver and that is shows up on the map.
6) Turn the receiver off and disconnect.

500 Data Point Limit Work Around
4a) In MapSource, open the file, open the TRACK, then open Properties.
4b) Rename the TRACK as "ACTIVE LOG" without the "" of course.
5a) Rename the TRACK on the receiver, using the pop up key board (or whatever your device allows) if you want it renamed.

Hiking
1) Drive to the TH. Turn the receiver on and clear anything showing in the statistics page. It is important that the correct "Trip Computer" page menu options are noted with a check mark prior-to "Trip Computer" page reset: Reset Trip Data, Reset Odometer, Reset Max Speed, Reset Elevation Data, Reset Max Elevation
2) Open the TRACK you loaded at home. Be sure TRACK logging is ON.
3) Start hiking. You should be laying a track in on top of or very near the track showing on the unit.
4) Return to TH. Turn tracking off.

60/76/eTrex to HAZ
1) Connect unit to computer, open MapSource, and transfer TRACKS to the computer.
2) It will likely download all the tracks on the unit. You may want to delete the one you downloaded from HAZ so you are working only with the one you created on the trail. Clean up any miscellaneous data points from lunch breaks, potty stops, getting lost, etc.
3) If it's a nice clean route better than what is on HAZ, upload it with witty commments and observations.


Additional 500 Point Notes

• If the track being downloaded to the receiver is equal to or less than 500 points then it will download to the saved tracks memory file section on your receiver, then you can apply Shawn's step 5a; IF the track being downloaded to the receiver is 501 points or larger then it will download to the receiver active log (having previously applied Shawn's steps 4a & 4b)
• When the downloaded track resides in the active log you cannot change the track color to be a different color from this same hike track you plan to later follow (ie, it is easier to follow a different color track on your screen). Use one of the two following options:
  • Save the file from the active log to the saved tracks file and understand that doing this will reduce the total file data points to a 500 point max limit in the saved tracks file but now you can change the file name and change the color of the track; Also, now that you have saved it in the saved tracks file, you can now go up to the active log file and clear it out
  • In the tools section of MapSource (at top of page), learn how to use the "Track Divide" tool. This way you learn how to take a 964 data point track (as an example) and make two track of it, both tracks being less than 500 data points. So when you download these from MapSource to your gps receiver both tracks go into the saved tracks section of your GPS. Now you can rename them and change the track color, but most importantly you retain the total number of 964 data points in the two tracks.

I'll post it tomorrow to give a little more time for comments.

I agree that the Receiver to HAZ section is not critical to users; that is a whole different task.

Also, no need to identify the Additional 500 Point Note steps as "Shawn's".

Thanks for all the feedback. This is great.

LARichardson73 wrote:I'm having trouble opening GPX waypoints, downloaded from HAZ, in Mapsource. Does anyone know why this might be?

I can't do this download option either. Joe, is this GPX waypoints download option really doable? (When we upload our tracks on to HAZ they are done without uploading our personal unit waypoints so I don't understand how any could ever be downloaded).

I just downloaded the Quartz Peak Trail track in .gpx and opened OK in MapSource 6.15.7. I can't remember in which version it started supporting .gpx, but it was at least a couple years ago.

big_load wrote:I just downloaded the Quartz Peak Trail track in .gpx and opened OK in MapSource 6.15.7.

Yes, the .gpx track option will download and then open ok, but can you download this one and then open it ok using the .gpx waypoint option? I can't.