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I'm going to do this hike mostly as described in tonyp's book from the Pine TH up past Hardscrabble Road. On my Tonto NF map, it looks like there's another section of trail past that about a mile or so long that takes you up to the rim. Mileage looks like it will probably be in the 11-12 range, that last section of trail looks to be the most interesting section of the hike. I think this might also be a section of the AZT. Leaving Mesa at 5:30am.

I'm pretty sure I'll be up for checking this one out.

Sounds cool. I'll PM you contact info as the time approaches once you commit.

Is the trail past Hardscrabble, trail #15? That's the only thing I can figure but I sure as heck can't find any info on it. It looks like the farther you go, it skirts around the edge of town. Are we talking about the same thing?

On the section that goes up to the rim, it seems like we must be talking about trail #15 that takes us to the Sunflower TH? I don't think that's part of the AZT, though. We will be overlapping the AZT from the Pine TH to Oak Springs, though. Also, if we are talking about trail #15, I think its longer than a mile. I made a rather sloppy track and its showing it to be alteast 2 miles to the rim from Hardscrabble Road. We might be looking at a 14-15 mile day. It sounds fine to me and it'd be nice to put up a GPS route and some better info for that trail. I'm also curious about why I can't find info on the Sunflower TH labeled on my Tonto map. It seems like the TH to the top of the rim is an easy short walk that would logically be a popular spot but I'm coming up empty except for a few random mentions. What are your thoughts? Maybe I'll call the ranger district this week and ask about it.

Looks like the northern TH is Cinch Hook

Jim Lyding wrote:Looks like the northern TH is Cinch Hook

yeah... brain-fart on that one... Arizona and all its ridiculous place names! Although, now that I've looked at my map again, I'm pretty sure the northern trailhead is the Strawberry TH. Am I wrong on that?

For some reason I thought Stiller was referring to the hike up Pine Canyon to the top of the rim. My map doesn't show any trail to the top of the Mogollon Rim from the Strawberry TH. I believe the area west of SR 87 near Pine & Strawberry has been hit by wildfire pretty well in recent years. There's also likely to be firebreaks all over the place.

Sorry I'm responding late, but I'm having internet connection issues at home.

Tough_Boots wrote: I'm pretty sure the northern trailhead is the Strawberry TH. Am I wrong on that?

Yes (meaning, no, you're not wrong), I think that is called the Strawberry TH, at least it's labelled as such in tonyp's book.

Jim Lyding wrote:For some reason I thought Stiller was referring to the hike up Pine Canyon to the top of the rim

No, the majority of this trail is west of 87.

I'm not sure what that last section of trail is called. It's the section that's north of 87 and east of Strawberry. It looks like you have to head east (south) on 87 at little after the trail reaches 87 from Hardscrabble Road. my Tonto NF map and tonyp's book show this section of trail, as does the mapping in my oregon GPS. I might check the tonto website to see if I can find a name or number for it.

Tough_Boots wrote:it'd be nice to put up a GPS route and some better info for that trail

That's kind of what I was thinking, also. Doesn't seem to be much info anywhere on that.

Stiller wrote:I'm not sure what that last section of trail is called.

My National Geographic map shows it skirting to the west of Pine and ending just east of Strawberry. Its labeled at trail #15. It looks as though its a short walk east on Hardscrabble and then we should be able to hit it. My map also shows another trail a little farther east on Hardscrabble just outside the Pine border that also intersects it pretty quick and then disappears a little west of 15. I guess we'll figure this out on Sunday.

I called the Ranger District and they couldn't get me any info other than that the trail is open. Other than that, she didn't know anything about it and actually tried to tell me that it was Pine Canyon which is totally incorrect. We might be in for an adventure. I'm curious to see what's up with this trail and why it seems like no one hikes it. I wish one of the Rim area folks would jump on this conversation with a little info.

Tough_Boots wrote:We might be in for an adventure.

That's the spirit! Boldly going where no HAZ has gone before!

My research indicates that the Oak Creek trail officially starts just west of 87, a short walk from the Pine Trailhead east of 87. From there it follows a road and goes into a dry meadow near a creek. It jogs north up the creek (where the Isolation trail heads west and up the other side, and Pine Canyon narrows go southeast down the canyon). It bends southwest again and goes straight for awhile heading for FR583. Upon reaching FR583 in turns northwest and ends at hardscrabble rd approx 2.5 miles west of 87. Total distance about 5 miles (each way)

Thanks, man... valuable info!

nonot wrote:Upon reaching FR583

hmmm... I don't think it should go very close to 583 at all. Going down from the Pine TH to 583 and then up to Hardscrabble must be way way way farther than 5 miles. The directional info sounds valid but there's no way it goes that far south if the Tonto map is at all accurate. I think the road it must follow west of 87 from the Pine TH is FR 258, though. We'll figure it out.

Tough_Boots wrote:We'll figure it out.

Fair warning since you haven't hiked with the Lombardi Caretaker yet... take extra blood, Bactine, 911 on speed dial and an appreciation for torture
Exhibit A
Exhibit B

Every hike is memorable, RIP Cujo

That only happens on hikes in June. Anyway, as I remember it last June 2009, I was the guy who found the trail while the rest of you were spending your day donating blood to the Pinals.

joe bartels wrote:

Tough_Boots wrote:We'll figure it out.

take extra blood, Bactine, 911 on speed dial and an appreciation for torture

Every hike is memorable, RIP Cujo

Wow.... it must have been bad

You've had it easy since then...huh?

You say potato I say potato.

You say "FR258", I say "FR583", MyTopo says "Lower Oak Spring Canyon combined with Walnut Trail 251"

Stiller wrote:That only happens on hikes in June.

This is true! my bad, all other months have been good and Chris is always a riot to be around

coanbru wrote:You've had it easy since then...huh?

dang it, Twin Peaks was in June! I'm the one that's jinxed. Warning to all, do not hike with me in June

Stiller wrote:I was the guy who found the trail

wow