HikeArizona.COM

The permit lottery applications opened a little over a week ago. This year you can submit your application online:

( dead link removed )

(give the page a few moments to load--it's slow)

If you've never been, you're missing out.

Even if you don't own a boat, you should apply. Finding experienced boater and putting together a trip is not very hard. There's tons of experienced boaters in AZ and all over the west who love rafting the Salt, but didn't win permits or simply want to run it more than once.

Here's a few resources for finding boaters:

( dead link removed )

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Rafting_Grand_Canyon/

( dead link removed )

http://www.mountainbuzz.com/forums/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cazpc/


Good luck!

I really ought to do that. I am going to join SAPC, anyway. And I'm taking a white water hardshell kayaking class in Feb. Thanks for posting all those links. I knew only of GCPBA and Tom Martin's group--joined both of those yahoo groups ages ago. (Hope I am not a wannabe forever!)

@azbackpackr
Somehow I can never see you as a "wannabe" ever.

@gringoantonio
I'll put in although after 15 minutes I don't think the page is loading. I'll try again later although the Internet is super slow here. My problem is being out of state for two weeks out of the month. Are the permits transferrable? I'd definitely be up for getting the Jackson back in the water.

cathymocha wrote:@azbackpackr
Somehow I can never see you as a "wannabe" ever.

Thanks for that, but when it comes to river running, yes, I am definitely in the severe wannabe category. At first, it was due to lack of access and money. Then, while wintering in Yuma, I took a flat water kayaking class, and my husband and I bought a tandem rec kayak, for flat water. We had a lot of fun with it on the lower Colorado and its many lakes and oxbows. I have been on four one-day paddle raft trips on the Salt. I own a white water kayak, but don't know how to use it. (Got it for free. It is old, a Perception Dancer, but still sound.)

Now, living in Flag, I am meeting lots of river runners, have signed up for the ww kayaking class (in the pool, to learn the roll, etc.) and a subsequent class on the Verde for the class members, and hope to also take a guide class in May, so I can learn to rig and row a raft.

So, I am still definitely a wannabe. The climb out of wannabe has been a steep one for me. I hope someone reading this will invite me to swamp for them on a Canyon run...

Oh, one more thing, I have a Class B CDL with school bus and passenger endorsements, and I am a WFR. Two things that outfitters need: shuttle bus drivers and WFRs.

I have stood on the boat ramp at Lee's Ferry several times in the past couple of months and watched as both commercial and private parties, several having female trip leaders, rigged their boats preparing for launch. One of them, the woman leader was going in one of those small kayaks called a play boat, although there were several rafts in the party as well. She looked pretty tough...

My advice? Buy a used/surplus raft, get some gear, and put in for a permit on the Salt/San Juan/Green, something relatively easy. Go and do it.

That is where the access and money come in, but I am working on that.

azbackpackr wrote:(Got it for free. It is old, a Perception Dancer, but still sound.)

Nice! back in the 80's I boated all over the west in one of those... still have a Kevlar Layup of one out in the shed...(special permit model).

The current boats require much less skill to use in white water... you'll be worker harder learning in that boat!

azbackpackr wrote:That is where the access and money come in, but I am working on that.

Our rig was less than $1000 OTD. The bulk of that was the raft (AzRA surplus - $500). We bought brand new oars, frame, etc. from NRS. If you build your own 2x4 and plywood frame, you cut your cost even more. Oars you can't really skimp on, and they are pricey. I'd like to commission some really nice laminated wood oars from my friend who does custom canoe paddles, but I don't have the cash for that. Plus the fact that the oars I have now I can remove the blade from makes them easy to transport on our trailer - 10' length plus a 2' blade. If that was one fixed piece of wood, they'd hang over the edge of our 10' trailer!

imike wrote:

azbackpackr wrote:(Got it for free. It is old, a Perception Dancer, but still sound.)

Nice! back in the 80's I boated all over the west in one of those... still have a Kevlar Layup of one out in the shed...(special permit model).

The current boats require much less skill to use in white water... you'll be worker harder learning in that boat!

Well, I won't initially be learning in that boat, since all the gear is provided in the classes. I am hoping there is a roll session once a week somewhere at one of the pools here. There used to be, at a public pool, which is now closed, so you could go practice once a week.

I have heard a lot of stories, good and bad, about that Dancer. Mostly people say it was a great boat in its day, 80's, early 90's. Also they say the cockpit is too small to be very safe.

As far as I know- yes, if you win a permit and are unable to make the trip, you can transfer it to a person of your choosing.

I would strongly advise against anyone with less than intermediate experience just buying a used boat and rafting the Upper Salt. Or even considering it. The Upper Salt is definitely not in the same class as the San Juan. The San Juan or Moab Daily can be good runs for novices to learn on. The Upper Salt is a dangerous place for an inexperienced boater to put together a DIY trip.

The smartest thing you can invest in, before buying a boat and regardless of the river you want to boat on, is a swiftwater safety course.

NAU had a swiftwater rescue class on their list, but took it off. So now all they have is open water rescue on the list, which I plan to take. And several white water training classes. I will be taking what I have time for and what I can afford. Then I plan to go to a full-on guide school for two weeks in Colorado, on the Arkansas, in May. 50+ hours of training, the minimum to work as a guide in Colorado. ( dead link removed ) Last year they offered it to me at a good discount, since I have brought them so much business on the Salt. (They dba as ( dead link removed ) on the Salt)

I have heard guides on the Salt say that if you want to be employed that Moab is a good place to start, because as you said, it is easier. At my age, maybe no one is going to hire me, but I can dang sure try. Plus, then I will have a lot more knowledge. The NAU guide class is about the same cost for only about 5 days, so I am less interested in that one. Seems to me two weeks is going to be a lot more comprehensive.

azbackpackr wrote:At my age, maybe no one is going to hire me

I'd rather ride with you than the whippersnapper we rode the Arkansas with in CO. That kid was in over his head.

Awwww! Thanks!

Me, too!...the Colorado a few years ago.

I've lucked out on the Salt with that company I mentioned. ( dead link removed ) I will be facilitating another trip again this spring, most likely, with this same company, but if you can't go when I go, you might consider going with them anyway. I have never had a bad guide with this company.