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Is your hydration pack dehydrating you?

Posted: Jan 12 2011 11:16 pm
by joebartels
I noticed when it was ridiculously cold I was sweating buckets. A 110 degree day would have been a blessing in my mind. Anyhow most of it was on my back which transfers down to the back of my shorts and well you get the picture :lol:
Heck I'm not even wearing a pack!

So I'm curious if the shirt may actually be dehydrating me :o
Do wicking shirts do too good of a job?

Since then I have done a couple experiments and it seems like I sweat less shirtless (granted it causes unsightly face squinches to those I pass :D ) I suppose it may be evaporating too but my shorts aren't getting soaked
I know some go with long sleeves to block the sun as they swear it's cooler and obviously less sun exposure risk.

Now I'm just kind of curious if anyone has done any long distance 20 plus mile hikes shirtless and wonder if you carried less water?
(I'm talking without a pack on your back)

EDIT: Changed subject from "Is the shirt on your back dehydrating you?" to "Is your hydration pack dehydrating you?"

Re: Is the shirt on your back dehydrating you?

Posted: Jan 12 2011 11:32 pm
by big_load
Hmmm, a detect a new euphemism: "conducting an experiment". I already have to deal with the consequences of frequently "hiking on the Appalachian Trail" (only I don't do it with quotation marks).

Re: Is the shirt on your back dehydrating you?

Posted: Jan 13 2011 1:42 am
by Dave1
joe bartels wrote:I know some go with long sleeves to block the sun as they swear it's cooler and obvious less sun exposure risk.
Starting this past summer I wore an Under Armour "Heat Gear" loose fitting, long sleeve shirt and a cotton bandanna over my head on every day-time hike (just look at my avatar). This seamed to work out well and kept away the farmer's tan. Although the clothing does trap some body heat, I think it blocks more heat from the sun and so I feel I'm better off with than without. I could probably improve my set-up further with a "high tech" bandanna and hat.

Re: Is the shirt on your back dehydrating you?

Posted: Jan 13 2011 7:20 am
by BobP
joe bartels wrote:20 plus mile hikes shirtless and wonder if you carried less water?
(I'm talking without a pack on your back)
Unless your carrying a gallon jug(like bruce did on Salt Trail ;) )I would think without a pack your pretty limited to the amount of water you carry . I always wear a shirt when hiking or running. I tend to use loose fitting long sleeve shirts. But every now and then I pull out the red tighty. ;) . I find that not wearing a hat regulates by body temp better in the summer and then there's the ChromeDome.

Re: Is the shirt on your back dehydrating you?

Posted: Jan 13 2011 8:28 am
by PLC92084
@joe bartels

As fast as I hear you guys move, I'd think any moisture would evaporate as fast as it's generated!

Re: Is the shirt on your back dehydrating you?

Posted: Jan 13 2011 8:55 am
by CannondaleKid
joe bartels wrote:Anyhow most of it was on my back which transfers down to the back of my shorts and well you get the picture :lol:
Seems to me the solution here is not to wear shorts! :o

Re: Is the shirt on your back dehydrating you?

Posted: Jan 13 2011 10:43 am
by joebartels
@CannondaleKid that's a very popular thread on site, I'm not into it

@rlrjamy fanny pack
I had a JanSport one I loved before getting into the hydration-pack back-sweat culture
I would think without a pack your pretty limited to the amount of water you carry
Image

Re: Is the shirt on your back dehydrating you?

Posted: Jan 13 2011 11:17 am
by BobP
@joe bartels
I would think that without a shirt on a fannypack would be uncomfortable on the small of your back. Unless you pulled your shorts up to real high. ;) Shirt or no shirt wouldn't effect my water consumption...speed is what does for me. I need way less water running/jogging than hiking/walking 20 miles.

Re: Is the shirt on your back dehydrating you?

Posted: Jan 13 2011 11:30 am
by imike
Sweating and perceiving sweat are fairly different dynamics... just go for a nice walk in 100% humidity, and you'll sweat like crazy... or so it seems... there is just not enough evaporation going on. Shirts can reflect the sun rays... or absorb them, depending on color and material. In any given situation there is likely an ideal material, weight and color that will be right for the person... and no two are alike. I feel like I sweat more in cold weather... my clothes get soaked.... low rate of evaporation more often than not... coupled with more clothing. Often, it is more comfortable to do away with the shirt or have on a very light, sleeveless nylon t...

I use 1/3 the fluid consumption in cold weather... so, have to think the hydration/dehydration rate is much higher the warmer it is... and the clothing are likely a minor aspect of real loss?

Re: Is the shirt on your back dehydrating you?

Posted: Jan 13 2011 12:11 pm
by joebartels
Comfort with a fanny pack is not an issue for myself. I even recall debating a front and back fanny pack after I got my hydration pack. Then hesitated as I couldn't find the one I liked.

I'm thinking the shirt in perhaps a small 62-68 degree range is not beneficial. Pack-on-the-back on the other hand I'm thinking is an issue in any 50+ degree temps. In honor of Jim_H I changed the subject line
Es-and-hat.jpg

Re: Is the shirt on your back dehydrating you?

Posted: Jan 13 2011 12:28 pm
by CannondaleKid
@imike I'd guess most people perceive they sweat more when their clothing is wet as opposed to to wet bare skin.

@Dave1 The Under Armour you speak of does work!

I've been able to hike much more comfortably in triple-digit heat wearing a white Under Armour long sleeve heat-gear shirt than bare skinned. Reflecting the sunlight and cutting UV rays can do quite a bit to allow our bodies to breathe. I found the sweat was drawn off my arms into the sleeves and particularly with a breeze it evaporated fast enough to feel cool.

When I first moved to AZ in '02, I either hiked/biked with a tank top or no shirt until I got enough experience to have built up a database of sorts as to what works best for what conditions. As much as I sweat here, it wasn't any more, and in many cases, less than back in MN. High humidity in warm/hot weather was the killer. In the winter it was a matter of taking layers off fast enough to prevent excess sweating, and of course the re-layering quickly as you wind down the exercise. When mountain biking in the winter months (yes, I biked in the snowy months) I would dress very lightly, knowing that within 5 minutes I'd be plenty warm. As long as I didn't stop for break more than a minute or so, I wouldn't get chilled.

Now after living here long enough, for mountain biking in the summer I'm more likely to wear a very thin biking shirt because most of the time I'm moving fast enough for the moisture wicked into the shirt to be evaporated quickly enough I actually feel quite comfortable. For me I find it a bit weird my body seems to be able to regulate its temperature more efficiently in the higher temps than in cooler weather.

I will still go without a shirt from time to time (to keep that nice bronze AZ tan and absorb all that Vitamin D) while mountain biking. But for hiking whether I'm actually perspiring more or not, in my experience I feel better by using the Under Armour heat gear long-sleeve in the highest temps (105-110) and very thin convertible pants, the best being the ones that have a side panel below the knee that can be unzipped to promote more air flow. For 95-105 I'll usually hike either bare armed or a light colored long-sleeve when going through brushy areas.

As far as experimenting... to come up with anything concrete, it would need to done under at least semi-controlled conditions. Without some scientific means to quantify the tests what may seem valid to one person may not be to another. Again, perception is the key word here... I don't doubt that even our state of mind from one day to the next will make a difference of our perception of how much more/less sweating we did based on what we wore.

@teva joe Back to your 20 mile no-pack scenario... there's quite a number of variables that could affect the results that need to be the same:
1. Need to hike the exact same path
2. Temperature
3. Humidity
4. Amount of sun (preferably clear)
5. Particulates in the air, pollen, dust, smog, etc. (that's why the more closed and controlled a test environment can be made is what determines the accuracy of the result)
6. What you ate and how much you exercised the day before, the night before, the breakfast you had...
7. Your mental and emotional state (... maybe you had a very stressful day before one hike but not the next)
8. Add your own thoughts here...

If the testing were completely scientific, tracking how much air intake, etc. #7 may not show up quite as much as if it were just a perception test. Based on perception alone, I'd hazard a guess #7 may play a pretty significant part.

Like foot gear... it will come down to what works for us based on our own experience. But, Joe, if you do your 20 miles with no water I'd love to hear what you find out...
What was that?!!.. no water! :o
Well, wouldn't that be the most accurate test? Otherwise you'll have to make sure you sipped the same amount of water at the same points on both hikes, wouldn't you? :sweat:

Re: Is your hydration pack dehydrating you?

Posted: Jan 13 2011 12:38 pm
by BobP
Is this the fannypack you speak of http://www.hikearizona.com/photo.php?ZIP=1457

Re: Is your hydration pack dehydrating you?

Posted: Jan 13 2011 12:46 pm
by joebartels
No it was larger. I looked for a photo but couldn't find one :sweat:

Re: Is your hydration pack dehydrating you?

Posted: Jan 13 2011 1:40 pm
by DarthStiller
1.5 years ago I bought a white long sleeve NFL gear shirt (obviously for the Steeler logo) for sun protection. It’s very light, moisture wicking, etc. I find it much more comfortable to wear even in the 110+ degree temps than a t-shirt or sleeveless. No matter what I wear, I tend to sweat buckets, so I haven’t personally had an experience with the gear I have affecting that. The weather and degree of difficulty of the hike have way more to do with how much I sweat.

I’ve also hiked in recent years both in the AZ dry heat and the PA stifling humidity and that also makes a huge difference in “sweat perception”. I’ve done easy hikes in PA in 88 degrees and been soaked and swampy and then a week later hiked in 112 and felt way drier.

Re: Is your hydration pack dehydrating you?

Posted: Jan 13 2011 1:52 pm
by JimmyLyding
joe bartels wrote:No it was larger. I looked for a photo but couldn't find one :sweat:
You might check with Preston as he has a fairly elaborate fanny pack system.

Re: Is your hydration pack dehydrating you?

Posted: Jan 13 2011 8:57 pm
by autumnstars
When I first started hiking out here, I wore short-sleeve t-shirts. I have since switched to long-sleeve, very loose and light-weight shirts. Certainly, I feel much cooler.
The trick seems to be wearing clothing that allows the sweat to pass through quickly and easily instead of trapping it next to your body. No shirt would be the ultimate in breathable, but you lose out on the shading aspect of the shirt that way.

Re: Is your hydration pack dehydrating you?

Posted: Jan 13 2011 9:45 pm
by paulhubbard
CannondaleKid wrote:Seems to me the solution here is not to wear shorts!
I've told the GF about that answer, but she's not having anything to do with it... :?