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The TV series "I Shouldn't Be Alive" has covered several situations at Grand Canyon, most recently a solo rafter and another dramatization of Linda Fortney who survived a wrong turn while hiking toward Supai (beginning on Page 79 of 'Death in the Canyon' first edition)

An older episode, 'A Walk in Hell' is posted on youtube and covers the fatal mistakes on a backcountry hike of a group of Boyscouts on the North Rim (Saddle Mountain down to Little Nankoweap Canyon beginning on Page 81 of 'Death in the Canyon' first edition).

I'm curious as to the reaction to the TV series in general and to the 'A Walk in Hell' episode in particular.

Maybe fewer people will go hiking in the Canyon as a result. That would not be a bad thing.

Nah. You under-estimate fools need for attention. They won't see the danger, just the potential "fame". Otherwise you would not have dreck on TV like all the "reality" shows. (Not to mention the bozos doing stupid stuff on Youtube.) No amount of danger or humiliation is too large for the meth jolt of free fame ...

The walk in hell one is sad. Luckily there are a few excellent triplogs by those willing to offer helpful information now. Now I want to see the area myself.

The Scout group didn't take Nankoweap Trail near Point Imperial---they went over the edge on a complete backcountry route with no distinct trail. Nankoweap Trail is hard enough--one of the toughest in the Canyon---but at least the Scouts would have hit water at Nankoweap Creek a little over 11 miles down. Instead, they attempted the primitive Saddle Mountain Pass to Little Nankoweap route. The survivors stumbled down Little Nankoweap Creek (dry) until they were able to reach the Colorado.

yep
don't you think if they read the triplogs they'd figure out their plan was even worse?

That boyscout troop made tons of mistakes. Who hikes the GC during a major heat wave? Those scout leaders, Blah.

There is a big difference in the way the adults are portrayed in the TV re-enactment as compared to the description of the events in "Over the Edge: Death in Grand Canyon" I tend to believe the narrative in the book, not the TV version. The death of the boy scout was a result of a series of horrible errors---it's a wonder they all didn't die. If not for the lucky connection at the River, more would have had they endured yet another day without water. The video has the adult 'leader' on screen---how this guy had the gall to even present himself without guilt is amazing---his need for fame overwhelmed his shame---if he had any.

Death doesn't sell to the wider TV audience so it's undoubtedly hyped up.

It's easy to point out the mistakes. The bottom line is what is anyone that sees those mistakes doing to be sure it doesn't happen again? Ban off-trail exploring and manage with an easy decision so we can go home and go to sleep while the foundation of our culture is denied a true connection with nature? Offering personal experiences so others can learn and benefit?

joe bartels wrote:Offering personal experiences so others can learn and benefit?

Exactly. So many of the hiking or packing-related deaths or near misses I've heard about seem so preventable. With more research/knowledge from people who have gone before and a more honest estimation of your own limits.

Supposedly they were going for a 6-day hike, with no water sources en route. If that is true, and you need 1-2 gallons a day, at 8 pounds per gallon, they would have each needed to carry 48-96 pounds of water. That's a hell of a load, and does not even take into account other equipment they might carry. Poor planning ...

I remember that. Can't believe the Park gave them a permit for that route at that time of year.

joe bartels wrote:Death doesn't sell to the wider TV audience so it's undoubtedly hyped up.

Real death doesn't play too well. They'll take all the fake death they can get.

I watched the entire video last night and really enjoyed it overall. It was definitely overly dramatic but was still a good watch. But be warned, the video is broken up into five parts and its roughly 43 minutes long.

Question, when did this event take place? I believe it was 1996 but could not tell for sure. I just ordered Death in the Canyon and look forward to reading about it and all the other tragic events in the recorded history of the canyon.

John9L wrote: I just ordered Death in the Canyon and look forward to reading about it and all the other tragic events in the recorded history of the canyon.

One of my very favorite books, not because everyone dies (first of all it isn't true, and secondly I'm not THAT much of a gratificationist!) but for the statements it makes about safety in the wilderness. That idea of "the more we build for safety the more inherently unsafe a wild place becomes" could not be more true.

I think that things like what happened to the Boyscout troupe are tragic and terrible, but they are also what keeps the needed "fear" of wild places in our hearts. If no one ever got hurt and if just anyone could walk down there and be safe every time, then no one would worry, everyone could go, and we would have to find another way to satisfy our need for danger.

writelots wrote:One of my very favorite books, not because everyone dies (first of all it isn't true, and secondly I'm not THAT much of a gratificationist!) but for the statements it makes about safety in the wilderness.

Yes, the real message of that book and others like it (e.g. Off the Wall: Death in Yosemite) is how much of the already low risk can be mitigated with a little common sense.

Love that show, and the books "over the edge" and "off the wall"! The walk in hell episode was one of the first I saw - could not BELIEVE how many stupid mistakes they made! Boy Scouts are a terrible joke.

Hello John9L. Here's the original newspaper report of the death of the boy scout in the Canyon:
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/4942 ... -HIKE.html

kingsnake: The 'plan' was for the troop to get to the River to resupply. The 'leader' 71-year old Loren Pace recommended that each hiker carry 3 two-liter bottles plus a 2 quart canteen for the three day hike to the River from the Rim. The scout who died, David Phillips, was believed to have only four liters plus the 2-quart canteen. He was also the one who put in extra miles searching for water and also the one who shared with the others from his reduced water supply. Loren Pace reportedly knew that they would run out of water before reaching the river. They were almost out of water at the end of the first day.

Liz: They had a permit but is was for later in the month! Agree that is was amazing that it got issued in the first place. Only the 71-year old Loren Pace had hiked the Canyon before with it being a first time hike for the other adults and the scouts. Not a way to get calibrated to hiking in the Canyon.

So, do these re-enactments on TV provide any warning? Or do they just provide the momentum to see if one can best what has killed someone else?

azbackpackr wrote:I remember that. Can't believe the Park gave them a permit for that route at that time of year.

The park service cannot deny anyone a permit if you follow their rules for getting one, their policy just makes sure you get force fed the warnings and presented with info sheets....as it should be.

It's unfortunate that people died, but let's not let a few unprepared and irrational people lead us to overregulate it beyond where it is already at.

I think the permit policy seems pretty reasonable. You get stern warnings and information and a chance to back out gracefully. But, you do still get the permit if that's what you want.

The really sad ones to me are when a leader plans poorly for an inexperienced group, especially a group of kids.
A group that trusts that leader, whether they should or not.
Kids really don't have the foresight to understand planning ahead very well.