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Well i hiked to the top of superstition today to check on the cross i put up there after that plane crashed into it, killing everyone on board. I put a cross and several notes from people giving their condolences to the families. Well i went up there to check on it three weeks after (today) to find it destroyed and the condolences gone. So sad. Some people are so inconsiderate. Makes me really mad but whatever, i rebuilt it and took some new pics.
On a lighter note i bumped into another member up there, daddylonglegs, nice to meet you man.

That was an unbelievably sad tragedy, and I understand your desire to put a memorial up. But probably the USFS has some sort of a rule against putting up memorials, etc. You might want to check with the local ranger district to see if a memorial could be placed there.

The memorial to the 3 Scouts who died on Mt. Wrightson near Tucson, back in the 50's, is not truly condoned by the Forest Service, but it has been there so long I think it is kind of grandfathered in.

Unbelievable. Who gives a flying feces if the FS has a stupid law against putting up a memorial on their land. Its a sad situation that deserves rememberence. Sometimes I really don't understand the Forest Circus.

I do not support turning the forests into cemeteries, memorial parks, or places for remembering people who died there. We have private and public facilities for that already.

The Forest Service, BLM and the National Park Service have each been charged by the federal powers that be (Congress) with management of the wildernesses under their control. So by federal mandate various policies have been written into law for the express purpose of preserving these wilderness areas, including things that are and are not legal in them.

For instance, bicycles, motorcycles, quads, 4x4's or other vehicles are not allowed in the Superstition Wilderness. Now isn't that a good thing? Although I support all of those activities, I am happy to see they are prohibited from the Supes. Otherwise it wouldn't be long before it became like the Sycamore Creek area west of 87. For those who have never been out there, it's like one huge trash dump for the folks who have absolutely no respect for the environment or for the rights of others.

Ok, if we can agree those activities do not belong in a federal wilderness, where is the line drawn? I agree with Jim and those who liked his post that memorials have their own place and that place is not in a wilderness area.

In this instance, what purpose would be served by adding a memorial on Peak 5024??
Will a memorial bring back those who lost their lives? Will a memorial stop any planes from crashing in the future? Will it stop any deaths from plane crashes? No.

As far as I understand the wilderness regulations, the only items like memorials allowed in wilderness areas are those that predate the founding of that particular wilderness... so since Elisha Reavis died something like a hundred years before the Superstition Wilderness was created his grave-site is legal.

Oh btw, geocaches are not allowed in wilderness areas either, which is why most of them in wildernesses are 'virtual caches' where you simply document you reached the location with a photograph.

Also, I think the reason for this type of rule is that it sets a precedent. If they started to allow it, then pretty soon everyone would be clamoring to be allowed to put up this or that memorial or sign. So, in order to not play favorites, allowing some but not others, they just disallow ALL such displays. It does make sense when you think about it in terms of how many people might demand to put up their own particular display if someone else is allowed to put one up.

I understand the feelings of the people wanting to put up the memorial, and I do not wish to be hurtful or create an argument, I just want to clarify what I believe to be the reasons behind this type of rule.

So I understand the reasons for quads, off-road vehicles and things of that sort. And I also agree with not leaving a 6 foot tall cross and flowers. But a simple cross maybe a foot tall would be sufficient enough I think. As for the Forest Service, I have been a little jaded with them for awhile due to some circumstances that has happened in the past. I just don't see how a simple cross would be a problem.

I can see regulating something like that so people can't say, "When I die, please bury me (or construct a memorial) at 'X' spot in the superstitions." However, when a tragedy of this magnitude strikes at such a remote area, I don't see a problem having a memorial there. It's not like so many tragedies occur that there would be memorials all over the place. I wouldn't have a problem memorializing the hikers that have perished in the supes.

I can definitely agree with both sides of this issue. NINJA, I can see your point and it thought it was a wonderful gesture. However, what if the 30 people that had stopped to pay tribute, saw it and decided to add to it? You guys have all seen how these "memorials" can grow...And it only takes 1 person to put something there that would be inappropriate or dangerous to the local wildlife and then there would be a huge problem. You start putting things there that don't weather well or get "blown" off the mountain, then it's going to just be more litter in a pristine area. I think those things can get out of control and I agree that the FS has to have a law about it.

That being said, maybe there could be some sort of compromise involved with the FS. Maybe with a tragedy such as this, allow a simple memorial for say, 30 days, and then it would be removed? Or, maybe have a small rock engraved and placed up there so that at least it would blend in with the environment and people could still pay their respects. Should be limited to just tragedies that happen there, not because someone want to "be a part of the Supes" after they die...

Like I said, I can see both sides and it's a tough issue...

I think the charred rock will be there for a long time, and will serve as a reminder in the future. Even after the soot is gone, the rocks themselves will have been changed by the heat of the blaze.

Isn't this enough to remind us what happened here?

http://hikearizona.com/t2011/12/05/O_45 ... 635-07.jpg

Tough_Boots wrote:Isn't this enough to remind us what happened here?

http://hikearizona.com/t2011/12/05/O_45 ... 635-07.jpg

Very well put. Next to that, any manmade memorial, especially a growing cancerlike mound of them would only appear silly and look like littering eventually. I also agree that you don't want to offend those who mean well by doing it, but it really only would look very out of place for a wilderness area, especially right next to the actual scar from the crash that would dwarf it.

I believe that officially the FS forbids anyone to even be at the crash site, which is in and of itself ridiculous. until this issue comes up, at which point you can see why it's necessary.

I see and agree with your points. I wouldn't want to see a hodge-podge of crosses, flowers, etc. like what you see on the sides of the highways.

A few weeks ago I was on top of Picketpost Mtn and saw a memorial plaque which had been glued to a rock a short ways east of the mailbox. I don't know if the person named on the plaque died there or somewhere else and just loved the mountain. However, if he truly did love the mountain I think defacing it with a plaque is the wrong way to honor him.

I've been to the crash site and think the scorched earth and blackened rocks serve as sufficient reminder of what occurred at that location.

The plaque on Picketpost has been there for some time and is in honor of Jon L. Kraps who was a long-time coach at Superior High School. I don't have enough information as to whether he died on Picketpost or not but I doubt it.
See: http://hikearizona.com/photo.php?ZIP=228091
Since Picketpost is in Tonto National Forest and not part of the Superstition Wilderness as far as I know it is not forbidden.

If I were to make a stand either way on this particular plaque this one doesn't really bother me. If anything it is tasteful, the color almost blends in with the rock and IMO is unobtrusive. Also I know a number of people who have been up Picketpost numerous times and never knew the plaque was there. I only noticed it the time I spent hours wandering around the top. (BTW, I did find other things that were a bit disgusting, but that was more in the line of trash that disrespecting individuals would knowing leave)

Well, my hope wasn't to offend or break rules, just a gesture. Ill do it every-time i go up, without complaint or merit.i was up there right after it happened and felt bad. moving a couple of rocks around every time shouldn't bother anyone,seeing as we all do it just by hiking. Hope to see more of you guys around.

N1NJA wrote:Well, my hope wasn't to offend or break rules, just a gesture. Ill do it every-time i go up, without complaint or merit.i was up there right after it happened and felt bad. moving a couple of rocks around every time shouldn't bother anyone,seeing as we all do it just by hiking. Hope to see more of you guys around.

You originally said you put a cross up there, that is different from moving rocks around. The notes were paper, I assume, and not a synthetic sheet material, and while they will decay, they are still litter. Being considerate is a two way street. It would be more sensible to take out an ad in the newspaper offering condolences, or contact the victims families directly. Other than in a mythical realm, the no one would know about your condolences unless they went up there. Also, was everyone Christian?

Jim_H wrote:

N1NJA wrote:Well, my hope wasn't to offend or break rules, just a gesture. Ill do it every-time i go up, without complaint or merit.i was up there right after it happened and felt bad. moving a couple of rocks around every time shouldn't bother anyone,seeing as we all do it just by hiking. Hope to see more of you guys around.

You originally said you put a cross up there, that is different from moving rocks around. The notes were paper, I assume, and not a synthetic sheet material, and while they will decay, they are still litter. Being considerate is a two way street. It would be more sensible to take out an ad in the newspaper offering condolences, or contact the victims families directly. Other than in a mythical realm, the no one would know about your condolences unless they went up there. Also, was everyone Christian?

Wow really?

Jim_H wrote:Also, was everyone Christian?

Good point. When I am gone, I don't want a cross either at my grave or to mark the spot that I died. That would be appropriating someone else's religion, and would be implying something about me that I don't believe.

I want to be eaten by coyotes. Wolves, bears, whatever, would work as well. Seriously. Which I guess means my memorial would be a fresh pile of ... uhm ... organic matter. Probably won't happen, but I can dream ...