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Indigenous religious fire ceremony - FS says no
Posted: Jul 06 2012 11:36 am
by chumley
The US Forest Service will cite an indigenous group for a 4-day religious ceremony in the forest near Flagstaff which they claim requires fire. Coconino NF says it's in violation of fire restrictions.
http://azdailysun.com/news/state-and-re ... f5855.html
I wonder if this ceremony must occur on specific dates, and if it happens annually. Or if it's really just happening to make a political statement vs. the federal government?
Re: Indigenous religious fire ceremony - FS says no
Posted: Jul 06 2012 11:55 am
by rwstorm
I say put the fire out.
Re: Indigenous religious fire ceremony - FS says no
Posted: Jul 06 2012 12:29 pm
by Alston_Neal
Since the article lacked tribal names I decided to do a search....
http://www.indigenousaction.org/forest- ... -ceremony/
Wiki..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internatio ... andmothers
So if they are guardians of the forests and holders of our spirtual being, then why would they risk both at a critical time of drought?
Re: Indigenous religious fire ceremony - FS says no
Posted: Jul 06 2012 4:32 pm
by Tough_Boots
Yeah, I can't figure out who this group is. If they aren't tribe specific and this is the first year they are doing this, then it doesn't exactly seem legit. Also, doing this on National Forest land during fire restrictions seems ignorant. To me, this looks to be more of a political indigenous rights movement thing than an actual traditional ceremony. If it was, then this would have come up before. Also, considering that the San Francisco Peaks are a tribe specific sacred place and that this group is not tribe specific, then they could do this elsewhere. Its also possible that they scheduled this during a time when this altercation was bound to happen and are looking to regain some of the media attention they've lost.
Please note, though-- I still support those working hard to protect the peaks.
Re: Indigenous religious fire ceremony - FS says no
Posted: Jul 06 2012 4:57 pm
by chumley
It actually occurred to me they might want to "accidentally" burn the peaks to prevent the planned development from going ahead. I know, completely effed logic, but stranger things have happened in this world.
Re: Indigenous religious fire ceremony - FS says no
Posted: Jul 07 2012 10:20 am
by Alston_Neal
Jeez chumley there's one in every crowd, ala the second shooter....
Re: Indigenous religious fire ceremony - FS says no
Posted: Aug 15 2012 9:39 pm
by beterarcher
I clicked on the link to the daily sun story and it said the page doesn't exist. I also checked out the IndigenousAction.com page and there was a real militant feel to it, reminiscent of Russel Means and the AIM. Being of Choctaw descent, I see a need to preserve all natural spaces and to protect the beings that dwell in them, but this fire ritual seems like a dangerous ploy by indigenous leftist groups to bring attention to themselves rather than an actual rite or ceremony. This group would have more legitimacy if it was comprised of original people from the area and not of people from a different region entirely. There is a good chance that their ancestors had no knowledge of Nuva'tukya'ovi (Hopi name for the mountain), considering that there are thousands of snow covered peaks in North America. I agree with Tough_Boots and I think Chumley has a good point. Alston, we need to invent a time machine to go back and take a good look at the grassy knoll!
Choctaw, one of the original Five Civilized Tribes!
Re: Indigenous religious fire ceremony - FS says no
Posted: Aug 15 2012 11:30 pm
by Tough_Boots
@beterarcher
I did a lot of research into this thing. It was total nonsense. The protesters have lost the Snowbowl issue and everyone knows it. This was a mere death rattle of them trying to gain some attention and possibly some donations for their folks that now have some legal issues. It was mostly Lakota who organized this ceremony with no support from any of the tribes who actually see the peaks as sacred. They staged this during a time when they knew there would be closures and fire restrictions to create a run-in with the Forest Service. Most of the indigenous folks who attended the ceremony had not even been warned by the organizers that the FS had already warned them it would be shut down-- heck, they weren't even told by this fake council that there were any closures or restrictions. I was really saddened by this because I am a supporter of the indigenous peoples who are fighting to protect the peaks. It was kind of a pathetic attempt. Also, by the way, Lakota Chief Arvol who's name is all over this has very strong AIM ties.
Here is the Coconino FS response to this. It was e-mailed in response to a query made by a blogger I know. This account pretty much sealed the deal for me:
Thank you for your letter and inquiry regarding the Indigenous Elders and Medicine Peoples Council and actions taken by the Forest Service to restrict use of fire during a recent ceremony held by the Council.
The Coconino National Forest became aware of the July 4-7 ceremony several months beforehand, and immediately began working with Shawn Mulford, the key organizer of the ceremony, to coordinate logistics and possible times and locations for the ceremony.
Upon arriving, Mr. Mulford insisted on a specific location, which was located in an area that was associated with the Schultz Fire and closed in June 2011 due to a large buildup of hazardous fuels and increased threat of a wildfire.
As is the normal protocol for any person or group desiring to camp in a closed area, the Coconino National Forest worked with Mr. Mulford to develop a Special Use Permit that would allow them to camp in the closed area for their ceremony. Mr. Mulford refused to sign the permit, so no permit was actually issued.
Due to extreme fire danger and dry forest conditions, many national forests in the southwest, and also tribal lands, entered Stage 2 Fire Restrictions in June (Stage 2 is an increased level of restrictions due to extremely dry conditions that prohibit fire of any kind across the forest, as the smallest spark or ember in such conditions can create a wildfire).
Knowing of the importance of the ceremony, the Forest Service notified Mr. Mulford in June of the restrictions, and numerous attempts were made by the Forest Service to work with Mr. Mulford to accommodate the Council’s ceremony and offer alternate locations and times—in a place and during a time when extreme fire danger and threat to the surrounding community was not a concern. Mr. Mulford resisted any offers and maintained that the ceremony must be held at the closed location and that fire be allowed.
When told that he could not have a fire, Mr. Mulford refused to notify the rest of the Council of the fire restriction and insisted that the Forest Supervisor notify the Council in person when they gathered for the ceremony. The Forest Supervisor did meet with the Council and notify them of the fire restrictions and reasons for such, also delivering a copy of the Closure Order and Fire Restrictions, once again offering to work toward an alternate location where perhaps the fire might not be a threat.
For weeks, and even for the first two days of the ceremony, the Forest Service tried to engage in discussions, requesting that the Council follow current fire restrictions for the safety of the community, as there was a current 7,600-acre wildfire in the southern part of the national forest and conditions were still extremely dangerous. Mr. Mulford and the Council insisted on maintaining a fire, and since all offers were refused, the Forest Service had no choice but to extinguish the fire and issue a citation to Mr. Mulford.
We respect and honor the Council’s desire to hold their ceremony as well as their cultural and religious rights, and we have worked to try to find an alternate location and time for the ceremony since it includes fire during a time of extreme fire danger and fire restrictions to the public.
In addition, there have been multiple ceremonies held by different tribes in the last couple of months that the Forest Service has worked closely with who have refrained from using fire due to the extreme danger.
We must often make tough decisions such as closing an area to any camping and fire and understand this is a difficult decision for the Council to accept. However, the protection of the Coconino National Forest and public health and safety is our goal. We are duty bound to protect and preserve our country’s forest and the communities that live in and around it.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Craig J. Johnson, M.A.
Tribal Relations Specialist / Archaeologist
Coconino National Forest Supervisor’s Office
1824 South Thompson Street
Flagstaff, Arizona 86001
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Re: Indigenous religious fire ceremony - FS says no
Posted: Aug 16 2012 7:41 am
by beterarcher
thanks Boots, I thought it smelled like PUMPKIN EXCRETION.
take care,
Michael
Re: Indigenous religious fire ceremony - FS says no
Posted: Aug 16 2012 8:32 am
by chulavista
beterarcher wrote:.......PUMPKIN EXCRETION.
Re: Indigenous religious fire ceremony - FS says no
Posted: Aug 16 2012 10:50 am
by beterarcher
chulavista wrote:beterarcher wrote:.......PUMPKIN EXCRETION.
seemed to be the acceptable wording on this site for things one doesn't like ;)
Re: Indigenous religious fire ceremony - FS says no
Posted: Aug 16 2012 11:07 am
by chulavista
beterarcher wrote:chulavista wrote:beterarcher wrote:.......PUMPKIN EXCRETION.
seemed to be the acceptable wording on this site for things one doesn't like ;)
Great choice of words! Struck my funny bone big time!
Re: Indigenous religious fire ceremony - FS says no
Posted: Aug 16 2012 11:18 am
by Alston_Neal
Beterarcher, since you understand the usage of pumpkin, I'll tell you what my Hopi friend said AIM stands for......
Pumkins In Moccasins
Re: Indigenous religious fire ceremony - FS says no
Posted: Aug 16 2012 3:22 pm
by beterarcher
Alston Neal wrote:
Pumkins In Moccasins
Re: Indigenous religious fire ceremony - FS says no
Posted: Aug 16 2012 3:27 pm
by beterarcher
thanks for the funny!
I'm just glad most people with no red blood don't bunch us all in to the same pumpkiny category. by the way, my hair is red and my skin is just as white as yours. ;) 1/128th Choctaw.... but PROUD!
Re: Indigenous religious fire ceremony - FS says no
Posted: Aug 18 2012 10:36 am
by Alston_Neal
Our family biz is antique and contemporary Native art. Forty three years this June.
So needless to say I've met a couple of Natives. Interestingly, aside from the obvious Natives everyone who has to tell me they're part Native are always Cherokee. Except for awhile during Dances With Wolves and then they were part Lakota.
One of my good friends is Hopi/Choctaw, his mother being Hopi makes him a member of that tribe.
He's great Katsina carver.
Re: Indigenous religious fire ceremony - FS says no
Posted: Aug 19 2012 6:43 am
by beterarcher
@Alston Neal
maybe you could PM me and let me know where your shop is I'd like to see it. I know .....Always the Cherokee princess or the Lakota warrior ancestor.
plz:. Ask them for their CDIB card and they usually say
. By the way I'v always wanted to try skydiving but I'm afraid I might not succeed. Hope your Sycamore wound heals OK.
Re: Indigenous religious fire ceremony - FS says no
Posted: Aug 20 2012 10:51 am
by Alston_Neal
Thanks for your concern, healing good, uglier than sin.
I'll send a PM to our place.
Now if only Joe would let me put a link in my Sig, I could do a kickback to HAZ, or Joe's PayPal account.... ;)
Re: Indigenous religious fire ceremony - FS says no
Posted: Aug 20 2012 12:01 pm
by beterarcher
Alston Neal wrote:Thanks for your concern, healing good, uglier than sin.
I'll send a PM to our place.
Now if only Joe would let me put a link in my Sig, I could do a kickback to HAZ, or Joe's PayPal account.... ;)
where do I sign the petition?
just ignore the last action of the smiley!
see ya later,
michael
Re: Indigenous religious fire ceremony - FS says no
Posted: Aug 20 2012 12:19 pm
by joebartels
A link in your signature line is welcome!
There is also a dedicated field for "website" on your profile at
ucp.php?i=164