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West Webber Trail #228 - 12 members in 45 triplogs have rated this an average 3.8 ( 1 to 5 best )
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Sep 02 2019
markthurman53
avatar

 Guides 83
 Routes 488
 Photos 5,777
 Triplogs 405

66 male
 Joined Jun 27 2015
 Tucson, Arizona
Webber Turkey Spring Loop, AZ 
Webber Turkey Spring Loop, AZ
 
Hiking avatar Sep 02 2019
markthurman53
Hiking13.41 Miles 2,619 AEG
Hiking13.41 Miles   7 Hrs   13 Mns   2.43 mph
2,619 ft AEG   1 Hour   42 Mns Break15 LBS Pack
 
1st trip
Partners none no partners
After a month of not hiking I decided to head up to Payson for a couple days. Heading up there on Labor day turned out to be a good idea, Started out of Tucson at 0500, there was no traffic coming out of Phoenix and the drive to the trail head at Webber Creek was also fairly easy, with the exception of a few crazies that think the control Road is a place to see how fast their off road vehicles can take that road. Got a late start at 0900. Amazingly the two days of hiking here I did not see one other person on the trail.

Started out on the Highline Trail and after .25 miles turned on to the Geronimo Trail, which is actually just an old road for the most part. The fun began at the West Webber Trail. I would really of preferred to do this a bit earlier because by 1000 it was getting a little warm and humid for this ascent. This trail was in good condition but it is steep. After a few standing breaks I finally made it to the top. The walk along Milk Ranch Road to the Turkey Spring trail was easy going after the climb up but due to the lack of shade it was hot. Dickenson Flat Tank had a bit of water in it but didn't look too appetizing. The grass growing around it in the meadow looked like it was just freshly mowed. Do they still run cattle up here or is this just deer and elk?

I thought that at the Turkey Spring Trail Head it would be all downhill but there is a small hill to climb up first. It isn't much of a hill but it is up none the less and when your expecting down it was kind of frustrating. Funny how when you're hot and tired how you can make a mountain out of a molehill. I took my lunch break just over the hill, didn't want to start out on an uphill plus there was a slight breeze there. Had a Subway Italian BMT for lunch and I am still amazed how much better those are when you are hiking, beats the heck out of that healthy hiking trail stuff I usually have. Started down the Turkey Spring Trail refreshed and ready to go. This trail is a lot more exposed to the sun due to the lack of trees on the upper end but it was downhill so it was tolerable. The views to the north of the Mogollon rim were spectacular along this trail. I even spotted the rock up on the rim to the north that me and my wife spent some time on years ago with all of the Payson area laid out in front of us. Good memories. This is another nice trail and I would definitely rather go up the West Webber and down this one. The west Webber does a lot more switchbacks so the grade is milder and there is more canopy to shield the sun.

I still had time when I got back to the Geronimo Trail so I took it east to Webber Creek. This was kind of a ho hum trail along an old road for the most part. The last .1 miles to the creek was a trail. There was a trail that I noticed every so often that seemed to be paralleling the road, I believe this trail starts at the Campground in Webber Canyon Campground. I will have to check this out on another trip. Made it to Webber creek refilled my canteen and headed back. I had plans to hike further up the East Webber Creek Trail but time was running out. Should of left Tucson at 0300 like I originally planned. The East Webber Creek Trail looks like it is an actual Trail.

Got back to Payson about 1700 and boy what a zoo. Traffic on the 260 was backed up for miles making the turn onto 87 south to Phoenix. Lucky for me I was heading East on the 260 so there was no traffic issues. The trick is to know what everybody is doing and do the opposite. Felt good to get out hiking again after a month of idleness. The last month I have been dealing with SS and medicare. working with them is like pushing a chain up the Turkey Spring Trail. I had two days where I barely thought about them.
Named place
Named place
Dickenson Flat Tank

water 1 out of 5water less than maxwater less than maxwater less than max Dickenson Flat Tank 1-25% full 1-25% full

water 1 out of 5water 2 out of 5water less than maxwater less than max East Webber Creek Light flow Light flow

water 1 out of 5water 2 out of 5water less than maxwater less than max Webber Creek @ Highline Light flow Light flow
_____________________
Aug 03 2019
toddak
avatar

 Guides 8
 Routes 5
 Photos 1,071
 Triplogs 399

54 male
 Joined Nov 15 2005
 Puhoynix, AZ
Pine Canyon Trail #26Payson, AZ
Payson, AZ
Hiking avatar Aug 03 2019
toddak
Hiking17.00 Miles 4,500 AEG
Hiking17.00 Miles   9 Hrs   30 Mns   1.79 mph
4,500 ft AEG
 no routes
Partners none no partners
From the north end: down PCT > up ERT > across Milk Ranch mesa > down WWT > up TT > return. East Rim is a bold little route, very fun, saw a mama cinnamon and 2 cubs on the mesa, several small flowing creeks along WW, refreshing thunderstorm on the way out.
_____________________
Jun 08 2019
LindaAnn
avatar

 Guides 22
 Routes 359
 Photos 2,325
 Triplogs 950

39 female
 Joined Dec 24 2007
 Ahwatukee, AZ
Milk Ranch Point Loop, AZ 
Milk Ranch Point Loop, AZ
 
Hiking avatar Jun 08 2019
LindaAnn
Hiking17.06 Miles 3,467 AEG
Hiking17.06 Miles   8 Hrs   20 Mns   2.36 mph
3,467 ft AEG   1 Hour   6 Mns Break
 
Route Scout GPS Route Recorded on Route Scout View
Got started a little after 9:00am and headed up Red Rock Springs trail. The trail is easy enough to follow, but lots of round rocks, which slows travel a bit. Once we reached Highline, we headed east to Geronimo. Surprisingly clear views in all directions, despite the various fires burning around the state. We could just barely see a little smoke from the Coldwater fire, and really none from the Mountain fire. Took a short snack break near the junction with Geronimo, then continued on our way. Just after Camp Geronimo, we ended up on the Boy Scouts Geronimo-West Webber Connector; we started to backtrack, then decided to just stick with that trail since it parallels West Webber anyway. Lots of great maples through this section, and plenty of shade. We reached West Webber just before the steep switchbacks started, and headed up. This part was a bit of a slog for me, but I kept my complaining to a minimum. Once up top, we decided to head out to the edge of Milk Ranch Point before heading down Donahue. We followed one the forest roads out to the eastern-southeastern edge and found some shaded rocks to sit on for lunch. Once there, we could see directly south, and could just barely make out the start of the smoke plume from the Woodbury fire, but we couldn't tell for sure where it was located. After we ate, we headed back over to the Donahue Trail and make our way down off the Rim. Somewhere along here, Jim actually complained about the heat--I was very confused. Once back on Highline, we headed east back towards Red Rock Springs, and back down to the car, finishing up by 5:30. By late afternoon, the smoke from the Coldwater fire had increased noticeably, but all the smoke was headed east. On the drive home, the smoke from the Woodbury fire increased a lot too, and we could finally tell in which part of the Superstitions it was burning. Nice day and loop, with great weather. Saw no other hikers all day, but a few RZRs up top, which was kind of annoying since they don't seem to understand that roads marked closed to motorized vehicles actually includes them too.
Flora
Flora
Bigtooth Maple
Meteorology
Meteorology
Fire - Wildfire
_____________________
3 archives
Jun 08 2019
Jim_H
avatar

 Guides 55
 Routes 46
 Photos 7,718
 Triplogs 1,628

40 male
 Joined Sep 08 2006
 Phoenix, AZ
Milk Ranch Point Loop, AZ 
Milk Ranch Point Loop, AZ
 
Hiking avatar Jun 08 2019
Jim_H
Hiking17.00 Miles 3,467 AEG
Hiking17.00 Miles   8 Hrs   20 Mns   2.35 mph
3,467 ft AEG   1 Hour   6 Mns Break10 LBS Pack
 no routes
1st trip
This was not a peak. There was no peak to be found here. Overwhelmingly smokey views tragically destroyed the trip. Cancel your plans, NOW! Excessively crowded control roads are out of control. Dust....galore. On the point, more dust, buggies, and dust, never a moments peace. Donahue heat drains one's hiking stamina and frankly, why do I even leave the house? Over 8 hours of shear torture combined with some of the worst hiking conditions of the year made for an absolute hellish trip around this eyesore of geographic feature. There is no milk to be found here!

The only consolation was spotting the Woodbury Fire, and now it is obvious that by the weekend's end, the entirety of that dreadful Superstition Range will be blackened! No more apples!
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Society's constraints are stifling! The only way to hike is fully nude!
2 archives
Jun 08 2019
ShatteredArm
avatar

 Routes 8
 Photos 38
 Triplogs 9

36 male
 Joined Nov 30 2015
 Phoenix, AZ
East Webber Trail #289Payson, AZ
Payson, AZ
Run/Jog avatar Jun 08 2019
ShatteredArm
Run/Jog28.70 Miles 5,400 AEG
Run/Jog28.70 Miles   10 Hrs   57 Mns   2.62 mph
5,400 ft AEG
 no routes
1st trip
Next in my backlog of "crazy adventures that I'm fine with only doing once" (this backlog goes back years) - the one I'm calling "The old maps say East Webber trail goes all the way to the rim."

Logically, we figured the best place to start when scouting out East Webber is not the closest trailhead (Geronimo), but Pine TH. Gotta get in a little warmup!

So we headed up Highline, then Donahue, then overshot the West Webber turn (despite having come up that trail a billion times - it's an easy one to miss). Heading down West Webber was of course fun. After that, heading east on Geronimo was all new territory (not including the Boy Scout days).

East Webber trail is actually quite nice - verdant and smooth, at least to the turnoff to the springs. We stopped at the "swimming hole" for a few minutes for a dip, but the temperature was a little below "refreshing." The trail gets a little overgrown on the way to Rim View junction. After that, it pretty much disappears completely. We were able to follow a semblance of a path until a big giant boulder field choking the canyon. Seriously considered aborting at this point, but we decided to try heading along the slope above all the nonsense. Found what was probably just a game trail that helped us get a little further up canyon. Paths came and went for the next mile or so, until we hit some nice red slickrock, which was also the upper reaches of the creek's flow. After this, it was just mostly hopping over boulders interrupted by one stretch of decent trail.

We cam to a pour off that looked like it has a couple of possible ways around it. We decided to try and go to the left to avoid it, but it turned out to be the "wrong" decision - we went up way too high, and couldn't easily get back down to the creekbed. So we just kept going up and up, avoiding cliff bands, until we ended up at someone's campsite on top of the rim. Whew.

From here, we jogged Milk Ranch Point Rd to 87, and then down into Pine Canyon (which would provide a much needed water stop). Pine Canyon is beautiful, and even better, it has a good trail. When we got down to the girls camp, we were ready for this adventure to be over - there are two competing trail signs on opposite sides, one that says Pine Canyon TH is 4 miles, and one that says 7 miles.

At one point 4 miles may have been accurate, but over the years they've added a bunch of unnecessarily long, swooping switchbacks that have made this trail a lot of fun for MTBs, but absolute torture for pedestrians. (I may or may not have gotten so annoyed with these flat, crappy switchbacks that I cut through on some of the old alignments. If the FS doesn't like it, then maybe they should've considered other trail users before they gutted it.)

In summary... Beautiful route, East Webber trail does not (continuously) go all the way up to the rim, and I'll probably never do this loop again.
Named place
Named place
East Webber Creek
_____________________
Apr 17 2019
DixieFlyer
avatar

 Guides 15
 Routes 202
 Photos 2,475
 Triplogs 189

male
 Joined Jan 07 2017
 Fountain Hills,
Geronimo Turkey Milk, AZ 
Geronimo Turkey Milk, AZ
 
Hiking avatar Apr 17 2019
DixieFlyer
Hiking10.70 Miles 2,518 AEG
Hiking10.70 Miles   5 Hrs   33 Mns   2.47 mph
2,518 ft AEG   1 Hour   13 Mns Break
 
1st trip
Last week I did a loop hike that I dubbed Red Geronimo Milk, so this week I decided to try a different flavor of milk, and this one was much tastier!

This hike is north of Payson, near Pine. I started and ended the hike at the Geronimo TH on FR 440, which is near Camp Geronimo, and is a couple of miles off of Control Rd #64.

The route was a CCW lollipop loop hike which followed this sequence:
TH > Highline > Geronimo Trail> Turkey Trail > FR 9381F > Milk Ranch Rd(FR 218) > West Webber Trail > Milk Ranch West Trl(BSA) > Geronimo Trl > Highline > TH

I particularly enjoyed Turkey Trail #217: It had great views along with a cool rock outcropping along the upper part of the trail. It was a lot nicer going down the West Webber Trail than going up it.

This would a good hike when there is hot weather in Phoenix -- the temperatures would be cooler than those in the Valley, and you'd be in shade for much of the hike.

After the hike I made the obligatory stop at That Brewery in Pine!
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3 archives
Apr 10 2019
DixieFlyer
avatar

 Guides 15
 Routes 202
 Photos 2,475
 Triplogs 189

male
 Joined Jan 07 2017
 Fountain Hills,
Red Geronimo Milk, AZ 
Red Geronimo Milk, AZ
 
Hiking avatar Apr 10 2019
DixieFlyer
Hiking15.70 Miles 3,675 AEG
Hiking15.70 Miles   7 Hrs   39 Mns   2.56 mph
3,675 ft AEG   1 Hour   31 Mns Break
 
1st trip
I had never hiked on the section of the Highline Trail from the Donahue Trail to the Geronimo Trail, so I decided to rectify that today. I wound up doing a CCW lollipop loop hike that started and ended at the Red Rock Springs Trail #294.

The trailhead is on Control Rd #64, and is a little over 2 miles off of Highway 87 between Payson and Pine. The Control Road is a very well graded gravel road that any car can drive on. There is room for probably 4-5 cars at the TH.

The sequence of trails on the hike is below.
TH > Red Rock Springs Trl > Highline Trl > Geronimo Trl > Milk Ranch West Trl > West Webber Trl > FR 218 > Donahue Trl > Highline Trl > Red Rock Springs Trl > TH

I had been on FR 218 and the Donahue Trail before, but the others were new to me.

I enjoyed the hike, although I think that this one would be better in the fall when leaves might be changing. The trails were mostly good to hike on, although I am not a big fan of the descent on the Donahue Trail.

The hike wound up being a bit longer than I intended. On the way out on the Red Rock Springs Trail, I got off the trail on a logging road, and by the time I realized my mistake and got back on the trail, I added about 1.3 miles to the hike.
Named place
Named place
Pine Spring Red Rock Spring
wildflower observationwildflower observationwildflower observationwildflower observationwildflower observation
Wildflowers Observation Isolated
there were some manzanita and desert/mojave ceanothus blooming

water 1 out of 5water 2 out of 5water less than maxwater less than max Pine Spring Quart per minute Quart per minute

water 1 out of 5water 2 out of 5water 3 out of 5water 4 out of 5 Red Rock Tank 76-100% full 76-100% full
_____________________
1 archive
Sep 01 2018
The_Eagle
avatar

 Guides 5
 Routes 792
 Photos 9,159
 Triplogs 1,080

63 male
 Joined Jan 20 2009
 Far NE Phoenix,
Red Geronimo Milk East Pine Bear, AZ 
Red Geronimo Milk East Pine Bear, AZ
 
Hiking avatar Sep 01 2018
The_Eagle
Hiking15.68 Miles 3,686 AEG
Hiking15.68 Miles   8 Hrs   6 Mns   2.14 mph
3,686 ft AEG      46 Mns Break14 LBS Pack
 
1st trip
Red Rock Springs Trail #284
Started here, because I'd never been on this one.
Nothing special, takes you up to the Highline, by Red Rock Spring.

Highline Trail #31
4 miles on this to get to Geronimo. Highlight was the Pine Spring area. I never noticed the 2nd wooden spring box, south of the one on trail. Had a fox hike towards me.

Geronimo #240
An old rough Road

Geronimo - West Webber Connector - AKA West Milk Ranch - BSA
A good option vs West Webber all the way. Thick trees and a running West Webber Creek, made this enjoyable.

West Webber #228
From where you get on this, the steepness begins. 7/10 of a mile and more than 800' of gain. The only hikers I saw all day, passed me running to the top. One was a Ranger Dave Metzer from Camelback. He says "Hi Joe".

East Rim - BSA
I've been up this numerous times, first time going down this one. A little more slippery, going this direction.

Clear sailing the rest of the way.





Culture
Culture
Bridge
Named place
Named place
Pine Spring Red Rock Spring
wildflower observationwildflower observationwildflower observationwildflower observationwildflower observation
Wildflowers Observation Light

water 1 out of 5water less than maxwater less than maxwater less than max Pine Spring Dripping Dripping
water report recorded in the field on our app Route Scout Pools to filter from

water 1 out of 5water less than maxwater less than maxwater less than max Red Rock Spring Dripping Dripping
water report recorded in the field on our app Route Scout Easiest option is from the tank on the highline trail. It was almost full. The spring area had pools that you could filter from if needed.

water 1 out of 5water 2 out of 5water less than maxwater less than max South Fork of West Webber Creek Light flow Light flow
water report recorded in the field on our app Route Scout Areas of flowing water
_____________________
There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
Dave Barry
2 archives
Jul 08 2017
The_N
avatar

 Routes 54
 Photos 1,508
 Triplogs 325

33 male
 Joined Mar 18 2015
 Payson, AZ
Milk Ranch Point Loop, AZ 
Milk Ranch Point Loop, AZ
 
Hiking avatar Jul 08 2017
The_N
Hiking14.85 Miles 3,532 AEG
Hiking14.85 Miles   6 Hrs   21 Mns   2.58 mph
3,532 ft AEG      36 Mns Break
 
We started from Red Rock Springs TH and did this loop CCW, I have only done it the other way. Getting the Highline section done early was the aim. Humidity was certainly a factor during the earlier hours, though. Once we reached Geronimo the stream of trail runners would begin. We breaked along West Webber Creek, below Turkey Spring. Had a snack and replenished my water supply that dwindled surprisingly fast. The stroll through old Pine and Maples, dotted with raspberries along the creek, was it's usual delightful self. Before the climb up the rim, we stopped and chatted with some of the trail runners, and let them go ahead of us. The climb up on West Webber was enjoyable. Switch backs and shade was all we could ask for, and we would eventually catch the crew of runners and start down Donahue together after the brief road walk. Once on the lower, steeper reaches of Donahue and back on the Highline, it was getting warm. Thunder in the distance led to clouds overhead and a break from the sun. By the time we started back down on Red Rock Springs, the big drops started to fall and we would finish out in a downpour mixed with hail. Temps dropped about 20 degrees and we were soaked upon reaching the TH. The cool down was much appreciated. Had a great time in Rim Country today.
Named place
Named place
Mogollon Rim

water 1 out of 5water 2 out of 5water less than maxwater less than max Pine Spring Quart per minute Quart per minute

water 1 out of 5water 2 out of 5water 3 out of 5water less than max Red Rock Tank 51-75% full 51-75% full

water 1 out of 5water 2 out of 5water less than maxwater less than max West Webber Creek Light flow Light flow
_____________________
If there is no struggle, there is no progress.
2 archives
Jul 08 2017
LindaAnn
avatar

 Guides 22
 Routes 359
 Photos 2,325
 Triplogs 950

39 female
 Joined Dec 24 2007
 Ahwatukee, AZ
Milk Ranch Point Loop, AZ 
Milk Ranch Point Loop, AZ
 
Hiking avatar Jul 08 2017
LindaAnn
Hiking14.85 Miles 3,532 AEG
Hiking14.85 Miles   6 Hrs   21 Mns   2.58 mph
3,532 ft AEG      36 Mns Break
 
All new territory for me, so I mostly followed along and tried to keep up. We got started around 7:30 to a cloudless sky, and it was already warm and muggy. We didn't see anyone for the first few miles, but after turning on to Geronimo, there was a steady stream of trail runners. We stopped and chatted with them several times, and also took a lunch break in the shade along the creek. Once atop the Rim, we could see clouds forming and moved pretty steadily after that. It was pretty warm on the way down Donahue, and once on Highline again, it felt sweltering. Just as I was about to complain about the heat, the clouds moved in, along with a rain cooled breeze. The last mile back to the trailhead was accompanied with heavy rain, some hail, and too close lightning. I even jogged, and I hate jogging, but getting to the car and out of the lightning seemed like a priority at that point. Great hike and good to get out of the Phoenix heat. It was about 70 degrees at the end of the hike, and I was greeted with 113 by the time I got back to my house a couple hours later.
_____________________
1 archive
May 20 2017
joebartels
avatar

 Guides 213
 Routes 824
 Photos 10,880
 Triplogs 4,287

49 male
 Joined Nov 20 1996
 Phoenix, AZ
Highline - Rim View Fail - Webber - Donahue, AZ 
Highline - Rim View Fail - Webber - Donahue, AZ
 
Hiking avatar May 20 2017
joebartels
Hiking24.85 Miles 5,143 AEG
Hiking24.85 Miles   11 Hrs   40 Mns   2.37 mph
5,143 ft AEG   1 Hour   10 Mns Break14 LBS Pack
 
1st trip
Bruce had a medium and large loop option. A hunter tricked us with a slew of coyote calls only 1.6 mi into the hike in the well groomed forest. The Highline/AZT rolled like a highway so I opted for the longer option with Rim View Trail.

Rim View Trail
Started off cool and looked promising. Tall stakes led the way. We went over a slick rock area. Then it got fuzzy in a ravine with lots of downfall. Around another bend and the stakes began to fade. Hanks route was getting into thicker stuff with small cairns. Backtracked a tad and searched out the stakes. They were taking us high up and nothing was looking promising. Bruce wanted to turn the ship around and my leg shouldn't be in this terrain yet so the decision to head back was easy.

West Webber Trail
Dreamy as always. Temps dropped into the low sixties and shade of the pines took over.

Synopsis
Only encountered 6 people. 1 hiker finishing as we started. 2 runners on #31. 2 camping near Geronimo. 1 camping at the Pine TH.

Mostly great temps, toasty midday. We'll get the Rim View Trail another day. Longer hike, not difficult.

Pacific Rose apples are bomb diggity! Had an October carmel apple feel, sans carmel... smooth, consistent flavored, pure joy, no regrets
Named place
Named place
Milk Ranch Point - Webber Tank
wildflower observationwildflower observationwildflower observationwildflower observationwildflower observation
Wildflowers Observation Isolated

water 1 out of 5water 2 out of 5water 3 out of 5water 4 out of 5 Geronimo Spring Gallon + per minute Gallon + per minute
water report recorded in the field on our app Route Scout Creek is running definitely over a gallon a minute

water 1 out of 5water 2 out of 5water 3 out of 5water 4 out of 5 Milk Ranch Point - Webber Tank 76-100% full 76-100% full

water 1 out of 5water 2 out of 5water 3 out of 5water 4 out of 5 Red Rock Spring Gallon + per minute Gallon + per minute
water report recorded in the field on our app Route Scout Good clear flow in the creek
_____________________
Hike Arizona it ROCKS!
Jul 29 2016
The_N
avatar

 Routes 54
 Photos 1,508
 Triplogs 325

33 male
 Joined Mar 18 2015
 Payson, AZ
Milk Ranch Point Loop, AZ 
Milk Ranch Point Loop, AZ
 
Hiking avatar Jul 29 2016
The_N
Hiking14.83 Miles 3,545 AEG
Hiking14.83 Miles   5 Hrs      3.02 mph
3,545 ft AEG      5 Mns Break
 
Stepped out for one of my favorite Rim Country loops this a.m. Went clockwise, although I'd recommend CCW this time of year. Lots of rocky terrain today, aside from the recently cleared segment of Highline around the Donahue junction. #294 is like a mini Y-Bar. I'd forgotten how much I like Donahue. It offers a nice climb up the rim then flattens out through a pine forest before ending at MRP Rd. West Webber #228 is always the highlight of this loop. There's plenty of shade under those old growth Maple & Oak trees and a reliable water source in the creek. Raspberries are already gone, unfortunately. Spooked a large herd of elk on Geronimo and could later hear them calling to each other for several minutes, which was kind of cool. By the time I jumped on Highline, the 62 degrees I started in was now 90 degrees with nearly zero shade, as much of the Western Highline is. I ended up using a water bottle I picked up off the trail to collect water at Pine Spring to dump on my head. Finished up back at Red Rock Spring TH. Distance of this loop is slightly shorter now due to a Highline/Donahue re-route. Overall it's a great loop that allows you to sample a handful of trails while offering great views, diverse flora, abundant fauna & a lush shaded oasis along West Webber.
wildflower observationwildflower observationwildflower observationwildflower observationwildflower observation
Wildflowers Observation Light

water 1 out of 5water less than maxwater less than maxwater less than max Pine Spring Dripping Dripping
Muddy seep under tall grass.

water 1 out of 5water less than maxwater less than maxwater less than max Red Rock Spring Dripping Dripping
A few inches of water on the bottom of the spring box.

water 1 out of 5water 2 out of 5water less than maxwater less than max West Webber Creek Light flow Light flow
Steady trickle. Occasional pools.
_____________________
If there is no struggle, there is no progress.
1 archive
Feb 19 2016
The_N
avatar

 Routes 54
 Photos 1,508
 Triplogs 325

33 male
 Joined Mar 18 2015
 Payson, AZ
Geronimo #240 to West Webber #228, AZ 
Geronimo #240 to West Webber #228, AZ
 
Hiking avatar Feb 19 2016
The_N
Hiking6.60 Miles 1,062 AEG
Hiking6.60 Miles   4 Hrs      1.76 mph
1,062 ft AEG      15 Mns Break
 no routes
Partners none no partners
Hiking with the youngster again this morning. Wanted something a little more kid friendly so I could get more milage out of him and then I remembered how much he enjoyed this one back in November. FRs 199, 64 & 440 are all in good shape and dry, aside from creek crossings (Bray @ 64 & Webber @ 440). Started at Geronimo TH and hiked Highline > Geronimo > Turkey Spring > up and across West Webber Creek > Milk Ranch Point West > Geronimo > Highline back to TH. Took a snack break along West Webber. Tons of water flowing from every creek and drainage possible. Tread was a mix of dry and mud with a few patches of snow. Got sprinkled on briefly but otherwise it was mostly overcast and warm. It was fairly green and looking like early spring until reaching West Webber Creek where it suddenly got gray and dreary, but we still enjoyed ourselves.

water 1 out of 5water 2 out of 5water less than maxwater less than max Bray Creek Light flow Light flow
Flowing across the road @ FR64

water 1 out of 5water 2 out of 5water less than maxwater less than max Turkey Spring Quart per minute Quart per minute
Plenty of water flowing down from the spring area

water 1 out of 5water 2 out of 5water 3 out of 5water less than max Webber Creek @ Highline Medium flow Medium flow

water 1 out of 5water 2 out of 5water 3 out of 5water less than max West Webber Creek Medium flow Medium flow
Best flow I've seen
_____________________
If there is no struggle, there is no progress.
2 archives
Nov 05 2015
The_N
avatar

 Routes 54
 Photos 1,508
 Triplogs 325

33 male
 Joined Mar 18 2015
 Payson, AZ
Geronimo #240 to West Webber #228, AZ 
Geronimo #240 to West Webber #228, AZ
 
Hiking avatar Nov 05 2015
The_N
Hiking6.29 Miles 1,044 AEG
Hiking6.29 Miles   3 Hrs   26 Mns   1.94 mph
1,044 ft AEG      11 Mns Break
 no routes
Partners none no partners
First snow fall of the season so I had to take the youngster out for a walk in the woods. Figured this would be a good place for an easy hike that has a little fall foliage accompanied by snow. The sun was shining which made mid to high 30's feel warmer. The trees were shedding both ice and leaves and the melt fog was rising in spots. The trails were entirely mud with a few deeper snow pockets in shaded areas. Perfect for a 6yr old boy, I think he enjoyed the mud more than anything. We kept a slow but steady pace so I could keep an eye on him and take plenty of pics. West Webber was flowing with fresh melt but a lot of the fall foliage is now on the ground. The Rim was looking stunning with it's new coating in the sunshine. The eastern portion seemed to have a significant amount of snow. Despite being wet and muddy, he asked for a return trip to West Webber creek as soon as we arrived back at Geronimo TH.
foliage observationfoliage observationfoliage observationfoliage observationfoliage observation
Autumn Foliage Observation Moderate
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2 archives
Oct 12 2015
The_N
avatar

 Routes 54
 Photos 1,508
 Triplogs 325

33 male
 Joined Mar 18 2015
 Payson, AZ
Milk Ranch Point Loop, AZ 
Milk Ranch Point Loop, AZ
 
Hiking avatar Oct 12 2015
The_N
Hiking15.20 Miles 3,797 AEG
Hiking15.20 Miles   4 Hrs   54 Mns   3.20 mph
3,797 ft AEG      9 Mns Break
 
Had to take advantage of great weather and hit one of my rim country favorites. It was a tad warmer than I anticipated but the clear, sunny skies made for great views. Every tank, spring and creek had more water present than my previous trip. Enjoyed a nutrition break along Webber Creek. It's still a little early for fall foliage down there and mostly green. Some of the younger Oaks and Maples next to the trail are starting to change. About 2 weeks from now the canyon will begin to light up with reds and yellows, I'll be sure to return then. I saw plenty of elk and even got close to a juvenile grazing near Geronimo. Other than the wildlife, I didn't see a soul on any of the trails all day.
foliage observationfoliage observationfoliage observationfoliage observationfoliage observation
Autumn Foliage Observation Light

water 1 out of 5water less than maxwater less than maxwater less than max Pine Spring Dripping Dripping
Still a muddy seep but more water flowing across the trail than usual.

water 1 out of 5water less than maxwater less than maxwater less than max Red Rock Spring Dripping Dripping
Only a few inches in the bottom of the spring box but it's clear.

water 1 out of 5water less than maxwater less than maxwater less than max Turkey Spring Dripping Dripping
Decent amount of water running down its drainage and across the trail.

water 1 out of 5water 2 out of 5water less than maxwater less than max West Webber Creek Light flow Light flow
Flow has increased since my last visit. Pools to filter from.
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Sep 05 2015
The_N
avatar

 Routes 54
 Photos 1,508
 Triplogs 325

33 male
 Joined Mar 18 2015
 Payson, AZ
Pine Canyon / Geronimo LoopPayson, AZ
Payson, AZ
Hiking avatar Sep 05 2015
The_N
Hiking20.77 Miles 4,212 AEG
Hiking20.77 Miles   7 Hrs      3.15 mph
4,212 ft AEG      24 Mns Break
 no routes
1st trip
The forecast called for perfect weather to knock out a 20-miler. Cool temps and an early morning fog sitting over the rim gave this hike an autumn feel. I like the new route through Pine Canyon. East Rim Trail was it's usual sweat inducing self, although the soil and rocks seemed to be looser this time. I followed Joe's recent route through the locust forest atop MRP and found it much more pleasant than my previous trip. There was even something resembling a trail. There were quite a few hikers and backpackers, more numerous as I got closer to the Pine TH. About a mile West of Red Rock Spring a group of 6 young adults going the opposite direction stopped me to inquire about a spring that might be ahead. All but one was dressed in all black, none had on day packs & were only carrying a liter water bottle each. I informed them the spring was dry and they might want to consider turning around. Pine TH was packed upon my return, with fully automatic gunfire echoing through the canyon. Awesome hike and another beautiful day in Rim Country!
foliage observationfoliage observationfoliage observationfoliage observationfoliage observation
Autumn Foliage Observation Isolated
Oak leaves along West Webber Trail were starting to change.

water 1 out of 5water less than maxwater less than maxwater less than max Pine Spring Dripping Dripping
Slightly more water than previous trip, still a muddy seep.

dry Red Rock Spring Dry Dry
Spring box was dry. Didn't investigate further up the hill.

dry South Fork of West Webber Creek Dry Dry
Dry at crossing.

dry Turkey Spring Dry Dry
Spring box was dry. Didn't investigate further down the trail.

water 1 out of 5water 2 out of 5water less than maxwater less than max West Webber Creek Light flow Light flow
Pools to filter from.
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2 archives
Aug 16 2015
The_N
avatar

 Routes 54
 Photos 1,508
 Triplogs 325

33 male
 Joined Mar 18 2015
 Payson, AZ
Milk Ranch Point Loop, AZ 
Milk Ranch Point Loop, AZ
 
Hiking avatar Aug 16 2015
The_N
Hiking15.58 Miles 3,844 AEG
Hiking15.58 Miles   6 Hrs   5 Mns   2.99 mph
3,844 ft AEG      52 Mns Break
 
Another late start, another warm hike. It was a sudden and unplanned trip so I went with a familiar loop. Although the extreme heat warning didn't extend to this region, it was by far my hottest rim country hike of the summer. Temps reached 95 degrees and there was no break from the sun. Heading up Donahue I questioned myself once or twice but knew that Webber Creek wasn't far and soon I'd be cooling off. I appreciated every morsel of shade. Once at the creek I found a nice little shaded pool and soaked in it while enjoying an extended nutrition/rehydration break. The creek was lined with coneflowers and columbines. I filtered 3 liters of water and drenched all of my clothes before leaving. I knew the very sun-exposed, mid-afternoon section of Highline I had awaiting me. By the time I reached Pine Spring, it looked like an oasis. Shade, tall green grass and although it's nothing more than a muddy seep covered in elk tracks, I was glad to have found water. Using an empty water bottle, I widened a small trench and funneled water into the bottle to pour over my head and soak my shemagh to keep wrapped around my head and neck. Certainly great views along this segment of Highline, but at the cost of being totally exposed to the sun. After Pine Spring I seemed to have found a 'second wind' and set a good pace I kept up with until I reached the Red Rock Spring TH finish. Overall it was an enjoyable hike. Physically my body responded to the stress of heat and sun better than I could've imagined (other than a few small sunburn spots). I drank 6 liters of water during the hike and was well hydrated before starting out, a decision that paid off well. Although I did hike on an empty stomach until reaching Webber Creek which was probably not a good idea. Didn't see much wildlife today, aside from a lone adolescent white tail. Encountered one other hiker about 1.5 miles in but that was it. Used Route Scout for the first time and all went well. I like that it keeps recording in background and the split stats for every mile. I used this feature as a reminder to slow down a little and not get overheated. I also liked that it notified me when my battery was getting low, cool feature. Hit THAT Brewery for a black bean burger and AZ Trail Ale immediately afterwards to replenish some much needed calories. Another good day in Rim country.

water 1 out of 5water less than maxwater less than maxwater less than max Pine Spring Dripping Dripping
Muddy seep, but water was present

dry Red Rock Spring Dry Dry
Trough was dry. Nothing dripping.

water 1 out of 5water less than maxwater less than maxwater less than max South Fork of West Webber Creek Pools to trickle Pools to trickle
Dry at crossing. Turns to a trickle

dry Turkey Spring Dry Dry
Old trough was dry, didn't investigate further down trail.

water 1 out of 5water 2 out of 5water less than maxwater less than max West Webber Creek Light flow Light flow
Small pools to filter from
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5 archives
Aug 09 2015
johnlp
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 Guides 1
 Routes 9
 Photos 4,169
 Triplogs 3,238

62 male
 Joined Mar 16 2008
 chandler,az
Pine Canyon / Geronimo LoopPayson, AZ
Payson, AZ
Hiking avatar Aug 09 2015
johnlp
Hiking20.40 Miles 4,224 AEG
Hiking20.40 Miles   7 Hrs   33 Mns   2.83 mph
4,224 ft AEG      21 Mns Break
 no routesno photosets
1st trip
We decided to hike this one counterclockwise after missing the first turn. Oops. The 8 miles on the Highline is probably better hiked in the morning before it gets hot anyway. Hiking commenced before 8 AM and by 8:30 it was getting warm. Throughout the hike any bit of shade was relished. Built up a good sweat on the uphills. Other than that, temps were tolerable.

We ate a few blackberries by Webber Creek before starting up to the Rim. Most of the ripe ones had already been picked so we didn't stay long. The trek up to the rim was nice. Partially shaded and pretty good trails.

The top part of the East Rim trail is really cool. Highlight of the trip for me. We hiked down this trail. I think I would prefer to go up. Good and steep.

The rest of the hike was a bit of a slog for me. My hip was giving me trouble, and it was plenty warm out. JJ had to wait for me a few times.

Overall an excellent hike. A little warm mid-summer, but an early start would help. Stopped for Mexican food in Payson on the way home. Yum. Thanks for everything John. You rock! :)
wildflower observationwildflower observationwildflower observationwildflower observationwildflower observation
Wildflowers Observation Isolated
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1 archive
Jul 11 2015
The_N
avatar

 Routes 54
 Photos 1,508
 Triplogs 325

33 male
 Joined Mar 18 2015
 Payson, AZ
Milk Ranch Point Loop, AZ 
Milk Ranch Point Loop, AZ
 
Hiking avatar Jul 11 2015
The_N
Hiking15.05 Miles 3,614 AEG
Hiking15.05 Miles   5 Hrs   25 Mns   2.88 mph
3,614 ft AEG      11 Mns Break
 
Took advantage of some awesome weather this A.M. and hit one of my favorite Rim Country loops. Started from Red Rock Springs TH (72 degrees) and went in a clockwise direction. Headed up Donahue and across Milk Ranch Rd. to West Webber and down to the creek. This is the most appealing section of this loop because of the lush green environment and the presence of water and wild berries. A group of 4 hikers passed me going the other way as I stopped to gather a handful of raspberries along the creek. I continued onto Turkey Spring before taking a side trail across the creek and meeting up with Geronimo. Next it was back onto Highline. Not my favorite section of this trail terrain wise but the views are great. There isn't much tree cover but the clouds had moved in by then and when coupled with the breeze made this segment of Highline rather enjoyable. Sometime before Pine Spring I spooked a rattler on the trail. Managed to snap a pic as it retreated under a rock. The rest of the hike was uneventful and the home stretch went by quickly. Beautiful day in Rim Country, great hike and all trails were clearly marked and in good shape except for the Red Rock Springs TH where both signs are currently missing.

water 1 out of 5water less than maxwater less than maxwater less than max Pine Spring Dripping Dripping
Water trickling across the trail down to a puddle.

water 1 out of 5water less than maxwater less than maxwater less than max Red Rock Spring Dripping Dripping
Trough was half full. Larvae were enjoying the morning sun.

dry Turkey Spring Dry Dry
Box was bone dry. Didn't investigate further down the trail.
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4 archives
Jul 09 2015
joebartels
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 Guides 213
 Routes 824
 Photos 10,880
 Triplogs 4,287

49 male
 Joined Nov 20 1996
 Phoenix, AZ
Pine Canyon / Geronimo LoopPayson, AZ
Payson, AZ
Hiking avatar Jul 09 2015
joebartels
Hiking20.48 Miles 4,504 AEG
Hiking20.48 Miles   6 Hrs   55 Mns   3.02 mph
4,504 ft AEG      8 Mns Break
 
1st trip
The classic Ken loop. The hike is from Pine TH on the church girl side, over Milk Ranch Point to the bullet ricocheting boy scout side. Preston/Kingsnake recently noted many new switchbacks on #26. We stumbled upon yet another new set almost immediately. Without signage it's puzzling. Yet you can't get into too much trouble as you merge back repeatedly.

East Rim Trail is still a cool beast. Knowing what to expect it was over quick. A jungle of Locust greets the sweat drenched hiker upon reaching the rim. Joy. jj loves the blackberries and found some nice patches on Milk Ranch Point, the mesa. West Webber Trail #228 is among my favorites. The forest, tread and views are a divine treat in the summer.

jj likes to hit up the beginning of Geronimo Trail #240 where it crosses West Webber Creek for the blackberry festival. A bumper crop is underway. Looks at least two weeks to ripe. He found some bonus grapes. Despite being no where near ripe, he ate a handful... bleck

The Highline is not a trail I enjoy, I'd rather hike back over. We lucked out with nice weather. It was enjoyable with borderline stormy clouds blocking the death star.

Heading home we scoped out jj's retirement home then he downed a quart of salsa.

Carried 3.5 quarts water, consumed 2.
Named place
Named place
Red Rock Spring
wildflower observationwildflower observationwildflower observationwildflower observationwildflower observation
Wildflowers Observation Light
Today's hike was brought to us in part by Wild Bergamot. The largest patch I've seen of mintleaf.

water 1 out of 5water less than maxwater less than maxwater less than max Pine Spring Dripping Dripping
you could filter from a small puddle in a pinch, better option nearby at Red Rock Spring

dry Red Rock Spring Dry Dry
If you read comments you are in luck. Nothing flowing but the trough was over half full.
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average hiking speed 2.42 mph
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