Mazatzal Wilderness Area

[FOTG]

I have already sent a PM to the most obvious person on HAZ for info in this area, but thought I would get a couple opinions before everyone heads out for the weekend..found tons of photo-sets for these areas, but most descriptions are still a little incomplete..

Here it is Canyon cancelled, still too much snow along Ash Creek, so planning on the fly, any information about the following would be appreciated..so here is a very tentative, and yes atrociously long loop I was thinking for an over night trip and first trip to Mazatzals..

I want to utilize the Verde River Trail #11 and I am thinking about starting at the TH near Dead Man Mesa or the TH near Twin Buttes (which I hear devolves into a pretty rough road from description, so might have to park further from TH and walk in)

so plan would be Trail #17 (Dead Man Mesa Trail) to trail #11 Verde River Trail, from here I know I have obvious out and back options, but I would love to try and make a loop of it, the best loop I am seeing is..from Verde River Trail it looks like one can take the High Water Trail #20 to #269 (West Bottom) to #34 Bull Springs Trail back up to Trail #14 (Saddle Ridge Trail) and then make my way towards where ever I choose to go in TH near Twin Buttes or Dead Man Mesa..I know miles will be long and tons of AEG, my biggest concern though is following trails, are they bushwhacks? have they been abandoned for 20 years? or just way to ambitious? etc..I also read a few trip-logs that say the miles are way to low listed on FS page..I don't mind a couple 15-19 mile days, not trying to do a 30 mile hike out on day two though..

Finally, I see you can make a nice little lolipop loop with an and out and back using the Verde River Trail, High Water Trail, West Bottom back to south end of Verde Trail..seems to be a more tame first time hike, and way less miles..Alternatively, I see some people start the Verde Trail from South, but I hear this is a 45 mile plus trip by back roads, is that true?

any suggestions for these areas would be great, in particular, some insider tips on getting to these THs...also if anyone wants to come, we can call it an event..very early Sunday or even Sat night to Monday...but don't plan on putting as official event..

one last quick question..anyone know if they do a Green Trails Map for this area?

[FOTG]

@The Eagle
Well it made my trip, I thought I saw something real unique..lol I still really appreciated another cool layer to great hike really

[The_Eagle]

@friendofThundergod
Big heard in Altanta (Mi)

[Tough_Boots]

@friendofThundergod

you gotta get out of the Supes more

[Dschur]

We have them all the time around our house in Payson.. at 5000 and have seen them on the road into Payson out of Payson both ways... and a lot of the time we see them they are coming off the golf course... and the golfer don't like them or the canadian geese... ewww big mess they make in the winter time on the golf courses....

[FOTG]

@The Eagle
yup those the ones I was referring to...kind of near my old neck of woods, Mio..

[FOTG]

@Tough_Boots

You just gotta get out more period ;)

Besides you have not got memo...relocated for the winter this year, have not been in Supes really since early Jan

[FOTG]

I think I recycled thread properly. So I am looking into a Mazzie weekend and in my research of Davenport I found stuff to Mazzie Peak, reservoir area, waterfalls, etc and even came across this classic grainy looking photo all the way back from 2003...

http://hikearizona.com/photo=360586..

However, not finding any triplogs for entire length of trail...so my question has anyone hiked the whole length of Davenport to Chisoln Spring/camp area? Is it even doable? Does trail exist? Think it could be found from Chisoln Spring/camp? I was thinking Barnhardt to reservoir, or camp at Chilson strap on day pack and explore as much of Davenport Trail that I can find..I feel Karl with a K once mentioned a potential key swap utilizing Davenport, so that implies some sort of trail right???

Any feedback from the Mazzie experts is appreciated, a little bit outside of my stomping grounds..

[mazatzal]

I scanned that old pic and chumley added it to the AWB wall

Trail was there in 2003! But that's pre willow fire. If you click photoset from that photo you get my triplog for Barnhardt to reservoir.
Ken/Outlander are the last ones I know of heading west from Chilson and Ken said the trail was hard to follow beyond Deadman Creek (check the Club Cabin logs).

The waterfalls in North Fork are widely known but there are also some in South Fork just not as big. They might be running well after the rain.

[BiFrost]

@friendofThundergod The part of Davenport Trail between Club Cabin and Chilson was pretty nuked from the Willow Fire but it's there in parts. However, once you get past Club Cabin site it's pretty easy to follow the trail all the way to the reservoir if that's the goal. Unfortunately one of the most difficult sections to follow is the first 2 miles from Chilson to South Fork of Deadman Creek.

[FOTG]

@mazatzal
@BiFrost

You think hazbot is accurate? I wonder if its like sandy saddle rough or worse?? Long ways to go if you lose the trail..

[mazatzal]

@friendofThundergod
I think HAZ Hikebot traced the trail from Topo but Topo is inaccurate. You could confirm by sending HAZ Hikebot a PM
I found this note in the route: "perhaps 60% accurate at best... beware"

Doing a day trip from Chilson to check out South Fork of Deadman Creek and the area beyond sounds

[BiFrost]

@friendofThundergod I think Richard has it right...hazbot is just following the Topo which can be innacurate. But real problem is the trail has almost completely washed out from the fire. We hiked Davenport between Chislon and Club Cabin as part of a loop backpack in April 2005 which was 9 months after the Willow fire and it was nuked then. We lost what was left of trail trying to make Club Cabin and ended up on the wrong ridgeline half mile from the cabin....really wish I'd owned a GPS back then and had a track. Probably best bet is to loosely follow habot/topo track and mix in path of least resistance as needed. Also I think Club Cabin is a worthy destination as well. Would be great to do this as thru day hike with a key swap.

[big_load]

But real problem is the trail has almost completely washed out from the fire. We hiked Davenport between Chislon and Club Cabin as part of a loop backpack in April 2005 which was 9 months after the Willow fire and it was nuked then. We lost what was left of trail trying to make Club Cabin and ended up on the wrong ridgeline half mile from the cabin....really wish I'd owned a GPS back then and had a track. Probably best bet is to loosely follow habot/topo track and mix in path of least resistance as needed.

This brings back memories. Mrs. big_load and I were camped on that trail the night much of it washed out, in November 2004. We got stalled by a smaller, previous washout and with rain moving in, decided to backtrack a mile and camp right on Sandy Saddle. A little rain turned into a big storm, with water running all around us. We spent the night listening to snags fall every few minutes as the soil washed out from around their roots. It continued into the next day, and we decided to head back. The trail was gone as far ahead as we could see, and as far back as the crest of the hill. As we trudged out, the rain turned to snow, which accumulated to six inches on top of the soft mud by the time we reached the car. It was an adventure.

Here's what it looked like the day before, in the remains of the manzanita, just before where the ponderosas used to be.

igallery/image.php?pic_id=2497

[FOTG]

@BiFrost
I think I am going to go with Richard's suggestion, set up camp at Chilson, throw on day pack and just explore some areas near by, I would at least like to see if I can locate the intersection or origins of Davenport for future reference, maybe head down towards Deadman area, I would also like to get a warm fuzzy on where that Rock Creek Trail comes out as well, so just an intel gathering trip with some relaxation at Chilson Camp. My table better still be there! http://hikearizona.com/photo=428838

thanks for the tips...Although, I am intrigued about the Club Cabin area now, but does not sound pleasant from Chilson, I noticed spring in your photo-set...year round I assume?

Lets work on that key swap plan, when you get done with your October Canyon madness...we could always just channel our inner Joe's & JJ's and just out and back Barnhardt to the reservoir in one day

[FOTG]

@big_load

Your pic is very apocalyptic, napalm???

[big_load]

It sure felt that way. She called it the "charcoal forest". That part actually wasn't bad compared to what followed around the next bend.

[BiFrost]

@friendofThundergod the spring at Club Cabin is probably year round....

channel our inner Joe's & JJ's and just out and back Barnhardt to the reservoir in one day

That would be quite a hike with the terrain....all this talk has me intrigued to try and retrace that trail as closely as possible from the two times we hiked it. Pretty sure I could follow the approximate route where the trail used to be. We will see how November looks....

[mazatzal]

@big_load
We day hiked Barnhardt to Sandy Saddle junction Nov 25, 2004 (Thanksgiving day). I wonder if we saw each other ;)

@friendofThundergod
@BiFrost
On the old Topo maps the "Club Cabin Trail" left Brody trail just west of Malapie Spring and intersected the newer Davenport trail alignment about a mile SW. You can see the old trail on the CT 1930 layer.

On satellite view you can see a few traces of Davenport trail and I think the crossing at Deadman is quite clear - loading this as a route would be useful to have with you because there are a number of chutes down into Deadman where you can get cliffed out.

I wouldn't want to day hike Barnhardt + Davenport but might be interested in a backpack...

[FOTG]

@big_load
I feel cheated to have never seen Mazzies pre-fire. I forget where I read it or maybe it was a HAZ person on forum, but I guess they say that ecosystem was so fragile that some parts of Mazzies may never again see pine trees, due to changing climate other factors ect

Just what we need in AZ another manzinita infested wilderness area, I detest that tiny apple tree!

[FOTG]

@mazatzal

be interested in a backpack

Always my preferred method of viewing a wilderness, keep me in the loop..