Toyota Motor Mount, Frame Failure Warning

[RedRoxx44]

Had bad news today on FJ, what I thought was a CV joint was a broken motor mount that put a hole in my frame. Dealer would not touch it and advised me not to drive it ( drove back from Cali in that condition) so it's at a welding shop.
This is a known problem with 2005 and higher Tacomas, FJ, etc. with some off roading, and according to some forums, not extreme stuff.
I advise anyone who drives one of these vehicles and sees quite a bit of dirt time, get your motor mounts inspected or do it yourself.
Early on the only remedy Toyota would offer is to replace the frame, and they did help out on some of the early ones, but if you've got miles on your vehicle, forget it.

[skatchkins]

Wowzers. Glad it's fixable and no harm to ya.

[Grasshopper]

Oh no I'm planning seven days away of off-roading this week..

[hikerdw]

Not an expert but I thought the motor mount issue seen in the 2005 Tacoma's was fixed in 2006 and higher.

[RedRoxx44]

Maybe on the Taco but not on the FJ. I just read the 300 + complaints at NHSTA on the 2007 FJ cruiser, most rear diff failures 2 associated with the motor mounts. 9 recalls on the 2007 FJ, none involving the frame/ motor mount. My welder just informed me the driver side is cracked, so they will be reinforcing it also.
I will be lodging a complaint with the NHSTA once the vehicle is back in my possession. The FJ forums note this issue and while Toyota may have quickly resolved the Taco issue ( much higher seller than FJ) I would still look at this if I had one and off roaded it.

Wonders of the interwebs, quick search forum 2008 4 runner motor mount frame failure at 42K.

[Alston_Neal]

Well that really bites the big one. Thanks for the heads up.

[Thoreau]

My first hint was noises when turning in one direction. Next major hint was the plastic engine cover contacting the fan shroud (and subsequently the fan contacting the fan shroud.)

Ahh the joys. Little bit of wrenching, welding, and DMZ part additions and no issues since though.

Toyota offered to pay half the cost to have a shop 'repair' it, but that was only because of who I work for and the people who made calls on my behalf. Even that was a feces deal though. The gusset option wasn't even on the table with them, so I just saw 'future re-failure' with the Toyota option and got some rednecks together to fix it right.




Better than new when all said and done:
http://xanthotech.com/...
(Link because image width is apparently too beaucoup for the forum)

[RedRoxx44]

I hope mine looks like the finished product. I get it back tomorrow.

[RedRoxx44]

Welds look certainly more than adequate, now dealing with some collateral problems from the work. Back to shop on Mon.

[Oregon_Hiker]

@RedRoxx44
Was the welding shop able to do the fix without lifting out the engine or removing major suspension or front drive line components?

[RedRoxx44]

No, they had to remove the front half shafts and take apart some suspension components as well as skid plates etc. I believe they used a transmission jack to jack up engine then do the welding. Putting the vehicle back together is where other issues came in. Some one goofed and I drove it to Globe with the front passenger ball joint not secure and the drive front half shaft not all the way in. I made it there in one piece but Brian was horrified and we did what we could to patch it, but it was loosing gear oil from front diff and we couldn't get filler cap off. Back to shop and needless to say I had a few words with the owner.
Have vehicle back but haven't done a super thorough inspection yet.

[Oregon_Hiker]

@RedRoxx44
What a pain. I will check mine latet today as soon as I finish Grandpa duty. I'm wondering if I can see the area of the frame that cracks without moving stuff out of the way.

[Oregon_Hiker]

Just checked the motor mounts on my 2008 FJ, manual transmission model, stock skid pan, no added weight like winch, or heavy duty bumpers. It only has about 85K miles on it. Mounts and frame around mount welds look good as new. But I take it really easy on rough terrain, try to avoid hard bottoming out of the suspension which I suspect would be especially hard on these mounts. The mounts are cantilevered out several inches from the attachment point on the frame to where the mount is bolted to the engine. Puts a lot of rotational leverage on that frame-to-mount attachment. After looking at it, it does not surprise me that this joint is not beefy enough.

[chumley]

I take it really easy on rough terrain, try to avoid hard bottoming out of the suspension

[Grasshopper]

I take it really easy on rough terrain, try to avoid hard bottoming out of the suspension

Since I ride with Oregon_Hiker some in his FJ on rough/rocky, 4WD terrain, I feel qualified to state that he uses his Low Range- 1st gear when others would opt for the same in Low Range- 2nd or 3rd gear. Going slower in 1st gear over rough terrain "avoids hard bottoming out of the suspension" and should lessen the possible breakage of the FJ Motor Mount(s).

[chumley]

@Grasshopper
I think I might have used low range 1st gear. Once.

[Grasshopper]

@chumley
If you had been where we were driving this past Mon-4/17, no doubt you would have a broken Motor Mount

[RedRoxx44]

I think probably frame twisting has as much to do with it and mileage as anything else, except if you jump the vehicle which I haven't. I am typically a rock crawler minded driver in rough terrain, Brian is always sighing and wanting me to speed up.
My vehicle has 166K on it and it has seen some pretty demanding driving. I will be replacing my wire winch cable with synthetic rope. My bumpers are stock ( sawzall work to mount and get at winch) and skid plates aluminum. But the tires are E rated so 10 ply rubber and are heavy and tough, but even if you do air down still transmits a lot of shock to the vehicle. I do hope to at least get 300K or more out of this vehicle. I'll have to keep my fingers crossed.

[Oregon_Hiker]

@Grasshopper
I think I might have used low range 1st gear. Once.

I've had the honor of experiencing your back road driving skills a couple of times. So, when I read that Tacos had the same problem you were the first person I thought of. As I recall you have broken part of the front suspension at least once.

[Oregon_Hiker]

@RedRoxx44

My vehicle has 166K on it and it has seen some pretty demanding driving.

OK, that will do it. Twice the mileage and most likely a much higher percentage of that has been on rough terrain compared to my FJ. Also, I've driven on a few of the "pretty demanding driving" places you've been and wondered why in the heck am I doing this? Massive AZ pin striping and new dents in the skid pan. Hadn't thought of the frame twisting but I agree, it's likely a major factor. Also the metal fracture in Thoreau's photo are typical of a fatigue type metal failure caused by repeated cycles at high stress but below the yield stress of the metal. So when my FJ has reached 160K miles nine years from now, I'll check the mounts again. Oh, wait, I'll probably be in an assisted care facility by then.