Feral Cat Problem at Gilbert Riparian Preserve

[rally_toad]

Calling Gilbert Residents and Gilbert Riparian Preserve Visitors. I have provided a link to an AZ republic article on the feral cat problem at the preserve, and below is a forwarded email I received from a good friend from PeFo and a frequent visitor to the Riparian Preserve.

Below the link is the email from Mike Evans, Conservation Director, Desert Rivers Aubudon Society.

The gist is that I'm posting here because I'm figuring that most Arizona hikers are just as interested in native species conservation as I am. As per the email, if you're a Riparian Preserve frequenter or a Gilbert Resident please email the town council and let them know that you support the removal of the rest of the cats that are roaming the Riparian Preserve. The Housecats are likely already the culprit for knocking out one native from the Preserve, the Burrowing Owl. Its been many years since I've seen a burrowing owl there, and other birders are saddened by the loss of what was a healthy owl population.

Anyway if you PM me I will send you the letter I wrote, which you can use as a template, but obviously change some things like name and such.

The email address for the mayor of Gilbert and all gilbert councilmembers is CouncilMembers@gilbertaz.gov

Thanks!

http://www.azcentral.com/community/gilb ... nsion.html

Starting right before Thanksgiving and stopping right before Christmas, Desert
Rivers Audubon volunteers assisted Riparian Preserve employees in trapping and
removing feral cats from the preserve. Trapped cats were taken to the Arizona
Humane Society. The traps were donated by Audubon Arizona, Maricopa Audubon
Society, and Desert Rivers Audubon. We trapped 26 cats, of which only two were
sterilized, a dismal 8%, and proof of failure at TNR by the feral cat
supporters. Feral cat supporters asked for and have received a pause in the
trapping until 1/18/11 to trap and remove the rest of the cats. On Jan. 18th,
the town and Audubon volunteers return to trapping and will remove any food
left behind by the cat people.


This has caused the Mayor and Council to be inundated with email, phone calls
and letters by pro-cat people. We need the birding community across the state
to respond likewise and let the elected officials know that you support
trapping and removing all cats from the preserve and that you desire a policy
to keep them, and all other kinds of pet dumping victims, out of the preserve.


If this ends up before the town council (likely), we would like an overwhelming
show of support from the birding community to not allow a feral cat colony to
be maintained at the preserve. We are also requesting that if you have any
photos of cats taking birds at the preserve, to please share a copy with your
favorite Desert River Audubon member so that they may be shown to elected
officials as proof of the bird kill by cats. Also, if you visit the preserve,
please document the number of cats you see, and please document, in any manner
(photos are best!), the stalking or killing of birds by the cats.


Please send any response off the list serve. Thanks for your support.

Mike Evans
Gilbert, AZ
Conservation Director,
Desert Rivers Audubon Society

[Tough_Boots]

@rally_toad

relax, dude... I'm not attacking you. All I'm saying is that there is a group out there that has been working with the cats under the permission of the preserve. They have never been given an ultimatum about ridding the area of the cats but have gone as far as to say that if the cats needed to be removed, they would be willing to handle it in a way where the cats would not need to be instantly euthanized. The preserve, before now, has never made any steps to rid or demand that the area be cleared of the cats. Why not do this in a way where nothing is senselessly killed?

Excuse me for bringing up arguments against this "call to arms" against these animals and shedding light on the opposing viewpoints. For future reference-- not everyone agrees with you and you don't have to get nasty because of it. When requesting action from the public, its important to realize that the public is made of individuals with varying views.

Deal with it.

and by the way, I've spoken at city council meetings in every town I've ever lived in and they only listen when they either agree with you or if its an issue that's in that doesn't involve dissenting opinions. Low level politicians don't like risking votes.

[PaleoRob]

Low level politicians don't like risking votes.

Most high level ones don't either.

[azhiker96]

I think they should add some coyotes to the area. It would help keep those bunnies with short ears and sharp claws in check.

I do wonder why the cat folks had not already removed all the kitties. Were they just maintaining the population there? It seems like they are saying that if they only knew the preserve really wanted the cats out then they could have removed them. So why had they not removed them already?

I don't doubt that some folks domestic cats were removed. Loose dogs and cats are subject to being picked up. It always seemed a double standard that people are expected to keep their dogs on leash but cats can roam free. I had a neighbor when I was in school whose child could not use the sandbox in their backyard because the kitties had found it and were using it. Things got better after he got a dog to keep the cats out of his yard.

[Tough_Boots]

I do wonder why the cat folks had not already removed all the kitties.

They never removed the cats as a population because that was never their purpose nor did they ever pretend it to be. That's a highly expensive procedure for a small group of local volunteers though they always offered to undertake it if it was demanded. It was never demanded. People seem to have this notion that they were failing at something that was never actually in their game plan. Their game plan was basically to catch and spay/neuter as many as possibly and also set up feeding schedules for these animals to help prevent them from hunting. They've always done this with the permission of the preserve. As far as any official responsibility on removing the cats, that would lie on the preserve which never put any plans into action until Fish and Game made their demands for future species introduction. Instead of allowing a group who has given an open offer for years to undertake a non-kill removal of these cats, the preserve decided to capture them and take them in for instant euthanizing. The real issue is the method of getting rid of the cats and not whether or not to remove them from the area. The preserve has been pretending that the issue is the latter which is actually not being contested by anyone. No one is protesting the removal-- just how it's being done and why a humane method was never attempted first when it was offered.

[rally_toad]

@Tough_Boots

Just because you know someone who works for Save the Cats does not mean you have the whole story.

Regardless as to whether or not removal of the cats WAS the goal is irrelevant, that IS clearly the goal now and the cat people had until today to do just that. Since there were still several cats at the preserve yesterday I doubt that they removed even a portion of the cats. Like I said if the cats people really wanted to solve the problem and remove the cats they would be gone by now. Read the original article, the cats person is quoted as saying "Safety of the remaining cats at the Preserve" is my first priority, he does not mention restoration of natives at the preserve, or wildlife, or anything else.

How is euthanizing an invasive species not humane? Feral cats are much different than cats raised indoors, these cats would not make good pets, and they would end up being released or escaping. Euthanasia is really the only viable option when it comes to the feral cats at the preserve.

Lets stay on topic rather than cursing those damned power hungry Riparian Preserve staff members! (sarcasm)

You're argument is essentially the same as those put forth by PETA and other similar organizations, "Save a handful of house cats and bovines, to heck with Condors!", a totally zoocentric view of nature that places highest value in a handful of organisms that are vertebrates, are cute, and are often kept as pets or on farms. Talk about a totally "synthetic" view of nature. House cats were artificially selected for by humans.

[Tough_Boots]

Just because you know someone who works for Save the Cats does not mean you have the whole story.

Very true... but I was adding to the full story-- only one view was offered at the start of this forum.

Read the original article, the cats person is quoted as saying "Safety of the remaining cats at the Preserve" is my first priority, he does not mention restoration of natives at the preserve, or wildlife, or anything else.

Why wouldn't the cats be their priority? They call themselves "Save the Cats."

Euthanasia is really the only viable option when it comes to the feral cats at the preserve.

The other viable option would be to give them to the ranches who offered to take them (wasn't this mentioned?). They can be very useful to keep mice and rat populations in check. If the preserve is catching the cats anyways, why not do this? (this is actually what the debate is about)

You're argument is essentially the same as those put forth by PETA and other similar organizations, "Save a handful of house cats and bovines, to heck with Condors!", a totally zoocentric view of nature that places highest value in a handful of organisms that are vertebrates, are cute, and are often kept as pets or on farms. Talk about a totally "synthetic" view of nature. House cats were artificially selected for by humans.

My argument has nothing to do with saving the cats and not the bird populations. You're obviously not understanding the actual issue (see above in bold). Nobody is saying not to remove the cats. I'm also not going to argue for the sake of arguing but I will take part in a discussion with someone who can discuss things like an adult-- its unnecessary to get angry and sarcastic just because someone disagrees with you. Though, I am curious about when PETA has made statements to the detriment of wildlife. Most of their work focuses on labs, domesticated animals, and livestock since there are already other large groups that tackle the project of protecting wildlife such as Greenpeace and the Sierra Club (and the Gilbert Riparian Preserve).

[rally_toad]

@Tough_Boots

In you're previous post you claim that Save the Cats was ready to remove all the cats at any time, the quote from the director and the large number of cats that remain at the preserve past the deadline says otherwise.

only one view was offered at the start of this forum.

Is there another side to invasive species having negative impacts on wildlife? That is the very nature and definition of an INVASIVE species.

You're obviously not understanding the actual issue (see above in bold). Nobody is saying not to remove the cats

"Bloom said the colony was being managed properly "

"The only way to keep the colonies under control, she said, is to trap, spay and neuter"


"My biggest concern is the safety of the remaining cats in the preserve,"


Seems to be like alot of people are arguing not to remove just from the handful of people interviewed in the article. Save the Cats was primarily trapping, neutering, then releasing. 2 of the 26 cats trapped by the preserve were neutered, very effective eh?

The debate is not over whether to remove them humanely or not. Euthanasia is humane, as is adopting them out, but most cats at the preserve would not make good pets. If they're given to ranchers many will end up right back at the preserve within a few weeks.

Your argument is a zoocentric one that places more value in a few select species that meet the cuteness criteria than it does on properly functioning ecosystems. Same argument put up by PETA, when have you ever seen PETA take action to protect any endangered species? Thats because really people who are in PETA (or "Save the Cats") place value in not animals as the name says, but in dogs, cats, cows, sheep, i.e. mammals that pass the cuteness test.

[Tough_Boots]

In you're previous post you claim that Save the Cats was ready to remove all the cats at any time

I never said they were ready to remove them "at any time." I said they had a long standing offer to remove them if the demand was made. This takes prep time which was never given or any warning that the removal would take place. Had time been given rather than this done all of the sudden, they would have had more options which would have appeased all involved and saved the preserve money (I would assume their budget is limited).

2 of the 26 cats trapped by the preserve were neutered, very effective eh?

That's what the preserve reports though no one else will ever know. They were taken to a shelter and did not give any info until it was too late. When Save the Cats scoured the surrounding shelters, they had all already been euthanized except for a couple.

If they're given to ranchers many will end up right back at the preserve within a few weeks.

That would depend on the ranches and how close they are. Do you have this information to make this claim? Probably not. There will probably always be a cat population at the preserve since the good people of Gilbert keep dropping their unwanted cats off there.

Same argument put up by PETA, when have you ever seen PETA take action to protect any endangered species?

Once again, this is not PETA's purpose. What are you not getting here? Would you fault the Susan G. Komen Foundation for not spending their resources on prostate cancer awareness when its not their cause? PETA has nothing to do with wildlife nor do they make that claim.

Again, there would not be an issue if the preserve had worked with this local organization in a timely manner. Why wouldn't they have said in the fall, "hey-- we need these cats out of here by January."? Problem solved.

Your argument is a zoocentric one that places more value in a few select species that meet the cuteness criteria than it does on properly functioning ecosystems.

Are you not reading what I'm writing? You are arguing against a point that's not being made. It's like you're only hearing what you want to because its easier to argue.

[BobP]

I hate cats . But whats worse is songs about cats. :yuck: Bruno doesn't like them either.

[CannondaleKid]

Is it getting a little warm in here or is it just me? ;)

My vote? Agree to disagree, shake on it and move on. (Unless of course you are a citizen of Gilbert and want to get involved)

Whoops... Oh, you mean what is my vote re the cats?? Eradicate the feral cats. No point in neutering/spaying, they wouldn't make good pets anyway. Euthanasia or other means, makes no difference to me.

BTW, I'm not a citizen of Gilbert, but I do pass through the Preserve every once in a while, and surely would rather see the wildlife as intended, not domestic animals gone wild.

[PLC92084]

Besides avoiding discussions relating to politics and religion, I'm going to add feral cats to the list...

[Tough_Boots]

Besides avoiding discussions relating to politics and religion, I'm going to add feral cats to the list...

Yeah, sorry guys. I don't even really like cats either but I don't like unnecessary harm coming to animals. I'm gonna peace out on this one and be friendly like I attempted before. Happy trails, rally_toad!

[StopTNR]

"...feeding schedules for these animals to help prevent them from hunting"

Feeding cats in no way lessens the motivation to hunt.

Also, I find it interesting that apparently groups that do TNR and conduct mass trappings of dozens of cats is not questioned, but when 26 cats are trapped in a short period at the preserve, folks think other means like darts must have been used.

People may be surprised to learn that PETA is not a supporter of TNR and acknowledges the destruction that cats do to wildlife. Peta favors euthanasia of feral cats.

More here:

http://www.abcbirds.org/abcprograms/pol ... s/tnr.html

[Tough_Boots]

now that web trollers with agendas have found their way into the thread-- I'm definitely not posting on it again!

[StopTNR]

"Excuse me for bringing up arguments against this "call to arms" against these animals and shedding light on the opposing viewpoints. For future reference-- not everyone agrees with you and you don't have to get nasty because of it. When requesting action from the public, its important to realize that the public is made of individuals with varying views. "

Who is nasty now? No trolling sir. Someone pointed out this forum to me, I see a place where (to quote you) some light could be shed. I prefer my hikes to be ones in which I can view our natural resources - not feral cats. And if you think the TNR groups do not have an agenda - you would be way off. The essence of TNR is to 'save' the cats at all costs (artificially maintain them indefinitely in so-called managed colonies) and convince people that the cats should be tolerated and made part of the natural landscape - feral or not.

[rally_toad]

That's what the preserve reports though no one else will ever know.

This is all just too classic!!
dun dun dun!! (dramatic music)

CAT-GATE the scandal of the decade!!!

I call for an immediate resignation of all Riparian Preserve Staff immediately!!

[Jill]

HI. This is my first post. I saw a piece on the news about the feral cat problem in the preserve in Gilbert. I love cats. People let go the most beautiful cats. I want to help but don't have place to stay there. I'm in Mayer, Arizona now and can leave March 5th. If someone or the park has a modest place to stay, I will stay there, have the cats over, lure them with food, get to know them, they can come and go. I would go out and meet them and find the pregnant ones and try to get them to come by and then call proper authorities to have them taken to no kill area shelters all across Phoenix, all the way to Tucson and Southern, SW and SE arizona. No, it's not the place for cats to make their home and is upsetting the natural balance of the preserve but the best way to find and catch the cats is to get to know them. I don't have a car of my own, am working at home doing some medical transcription with some food stamps and AHCCCS and could be there for the cats when they want to come and this would get them used to humans, I could look out for pregnant females and try to get them to come by and eat. Not sure if I could stay all summer, usually live in Tucson, but would be willing to stay Oct through May.
email me (zoryjill1954@aol.com) leave a number and we can talk.

[Alston_Neal]

Thanks for your post, very thoughtful of you.
You may want to edit out your e-mail and let people contact you through a pm.
Take care.. ;)

[Willowdances]

I'm new to this forum but saw all the hoopla from members about the "war" between the bird/cat people at the Riparian and am on board with the members who question the Town of Gilbert's actions. A comment and couple of questions -

The Gilbert Riparian Preserve was created to utilize recycled waste water to create a community wetland and wildlife sanctuary for recreation, education, and research. It was NEVER intended as a bird sanctuary, as stated. This is incorrect, and irresponsible to make these statements to people who are not aware of the situation. If you notice the signs they all say stay out of the water. It is polluted and dangerous and smells. If this person wrote the basic premise wrong, then probably most of the other statements are wrong. Isn't the open sewage/airborne diseases more of a concern to hikers? ( I for one will not be hiking anywhere near the Riparian) and How does a city that size get away with dumping their wastewater in an open area?

[chumley]

How does a city that size get away with dumping their wastewater in an open area?

Flagstaff is gonna dump theirs on the mountain and then we're gonna ski on it :GB: . Oh sorry, that's another thread. :STP: