"I Shouldn't Be Alive" at the Canyon

[Canyonram]

The TV series "I Shouldn't Be Alive" has covered several situations at Grand Canyon, most recently a solo rafter and another dramatization of Linda Fortney who survived a wrong turn while hiking toward Supai (beginning on Page 79 of 'Death in the Canyon' first edition)

An older episode, 'A Walk in Hell' is posted on youtube and covers the fatal mistakes on a backcountry hike of a group of Boyscouts on the North Rim (Saddle Mountain down to Little Nankoweap Canyon beginning on Page 81 of 'Death in the Canyon' first edition).

I'm curious as to the reaction to the TV series in general and to the 'A Walk in Hell' episode in particular.

[kingsnake]

Speaking of gracefully bowing out, when the troop was half a day into their hike and going through their water much quicker than expected, what stopped them from turning around and heading home?

[big_load]

@kingsnake Denial. Most people are good at recognizing an immediate disaster, like a broken leg. Some people have difficulty recognizing or accepting measurements or observations that portend disaster tomorrow or beyond. They hope to discover water in unexpected places, hope for an inexplicable reduction in their water need, or hope for an inexplicable increase in their rate of travel toward a known water source. In any case, they no longer have a workable plan.

[writelots]

Some people have difficulty recognizing or accepting measurements or observations that portend disaster tomorrow or beyond. They hope to discover water in unexpected places, hope for an inexplicable reduction in their water need, or hope for an inexplicable increase in their rate of travel toward a known water source.

I've had first hand experience with this - and with trying to be the voice of reason in an otherwise completely unreasonable situation. Fact of the matter is that far far too many people have no idea what their limitations are. The only way you learn this is by going outside, a lot, and carefully testing your own boundaries. Too often, we think we're Superman, that the world is a theme park, and it's only when the sirens are blaring in our eyes that we see our error. Too bad.

[azbackpackr]

I take issue with the person who said Boy Scouts are a terrible joke. It is a very large organization run mostly by volunteers, some with great sense and good skills, but others are not good at all, it is true.

I myself went on three really great bp trips in the Canyon in the mid-90's with my sons' troop: Bill Hall to Thunder River/Tapeats, New Hance-Tonto-Grandview, and Hermit. We planned for October, to avoid the heat. We did a lot of training trips in the Catalinas. We screened the kids we allowed to participate in Canyon trips, also.

Everyone hears about the bad troops, especially if there are injuries--they make the news, after all. Good troops probably never make the news. Thousands of Scouts successfully go backpacking every year, hundreds of them in the Canyon. Don't you want to hear about them, or are you just into dissing Scouts?

There are a lot of Scout leaders and former Scouts who post on this website. You are dissing all of us. I am still a registered Scouter and proud of it.

[CannondaleKid]

@azbackpackr
I agree overall that Boy Scouts as a whole provides many more positives than negatives.

However, of all the encounters I've had with Boy Scout groups since moving to AZ almost ten years ago, of the majority I found the leaders seriously lacking in skills/common sense and totally oblivious to the needs of the boys, particularly those who are in the poorest shape or have health issues, like needing an inhaler, etc. Almost always the biggest issue is lack of water for the weather and/or difficulty of the hike. On at least three occasions I've come across groups with one or more boys beet red, one to the point he was no longer sweating. And each time when I offer assistance, whether it be fluids or anything else, the answer I always get is something like we've got it covered, and of course they're miffed that someone would even insinuate they didn't have it covered. So I'd like to see the leaders do a bit more thought and research before taking a group out.

As sad as it is the even think this, my guess is there are many dads who don't have the time of day for their kids, so that any chance they have to pawn them off onto a scout leader that the dads don't bother to find out if the leaders are half-way qualified and if they can trust their boys with them.

[Canyonram]

Agree that on balance Scouting is a positive organization. Many have been introduced to outdoor recreation as a result of a Scouting camp-out and while they worked toward their merit badges. Not sure why 'cactuscat' holds his negative opinion---perhaps he will return and explain?

Like any organization, Scouting is at the mercy of the behavior of the individual members with the 1996 tragedy a good example. Old men have been leading young men to disaster since time began. Never underestimate the ego of incompetent males. Scouts are often the center of these news events, especially in Canyon country, because they are the ones out there engaging in the hikes, climbs, and campouts. Less than a week after the North Rim death, another group of Scouts (this time from Texas) had to be rescued from the New Hance trail on the South Rim. Didn't the leader of this second group hear about what happened to the earlier group?

Kids who only sit inside playing video games and wouldn't get near anything outside are usually not victims of hiking Grand Canyon. The fact that it was a Scouting trip is secondary to the fact that incompetent leaders staged the hike and were in charge. The narrative in the book 'Over the Edge: Death at Grand Canyon" is much more direct in implicating the adult leaders as compared to the TV dramatization.

'Kingsnake' wondered why they didn't just turn around. In addition to the excellant points made by 'Big Load,' most people don't understand how quickly dehydration can hit in the heat and low humidity. With dehydration, out goes the ability to think and behave in any kind of logical fashion. The book details how the hike down included a lot of false starts and backtracking---a sure way to go through water and also to make it difficult to retrace one's steps. This hike was not down a trail but a 'route.' The Scouts were all first-time Canyon hikers and instead were going on the 'memory' of the single 71-year old adut who had supposedly hiked this before. The father of the deceased Scout had been in charge of planning the route,map study, etc but cancelled at the last minute (not in the book, in newspaper reports after the event). Even if they wanted to turn and head back to the Rim, the Scouts may not have had the route finding ability. With the River in view and the effects of dehydration setting in, it probably was more 'logical' to continue downhill instead of turning and attempting to climb the scree and scrabble back to the top.

It is also not clear how they staged their hike from the Rim. The parking lot to the traditional Nankoweep trail head requires leaving one's vehicle and then hike in several miles. To get to the their entry point into the Canyon, on the first day the group hiked for five miles and camped above the Rim. Next morning, they hiked a few more miles down Trail 31, a spur that took them away from Nankoweep trailhead. They did not find the route down 'The Chute' until late afternoon. They had already put in quite a few miles from the parking lot before descending into the Canyon---they were well into their inadequate water by this time. Not sure if they had vehicle(s) at the parking lot waiting for their return since they were off on a multi-day trip and may have been dropped off. They may not have had any water waiting in the parking lot. Combine the mileage up to the Rim and the miles back to the parking lot (where they may have had to wait for their ride) and it was probably more appealing to head down to water instead of doing the uphill climb and miles back to the parking lot.

Several years ago a hiking partner friend and I went down the nearby Nankoweep Trail. We did a dayhike down a few miles and cached water and supplies---he also wanted to check how his ankle and bad knee responded before we did the full hike. We returned to the Rim for the night and then did the hike. Even this well-used trail is difficult in late September with full sun-exposure. When we finished up, we went out Trail 31 spur to get an idea of what the Scouts went through---we didn't go all the way to the Rim---it was too long a hike---and we had some watermelon and cold Coca-colas waiting in the ice chest at the parking lot.

[writelots]

Old men have been leading young men to disaster since time began.

That may be the most enlightened, true thing anyone has said on this board in a long time.

Stupidity isn't contagious. It's human.

[PLC92084]

Stupidity isn't contagious. It's human.

...and you can't cure it!!

[azbackpackr]

Wow, waxing eloquent here. Loved the comments. Thanks Canyon Ram and the rest.