Class of 2013 North Bound

[pops c]

Class of 2013; let’s start a discussion…

Trail Name:
Estimated Start Date:
Additional information:

Pops C.
01-15.March, (Depending on snow in the mountains)

Additional information:
To quote Ice-axe, “Train, lose body weight, lose pack weight.”

pops c

[trekker]

@azbackpackr,

I replied to you on the AZ Hiking thread. Yes, I mispelled Tucson, frequently do, but usually catch it if my brain is in gear.

trekker4@aol.com,
trekker

[pops c]

Brett, your input is welcome. Cherished, even.

I concur!

And your pack strap organizers are very nice. I thought the cell phone bags were priced high till I saw the quality; very pleased.


P.S. If you haven’t heard “The Trail Show” Pod cast #6, give it a listen they gave you all kinds of accolades


P.P.S.
Fyi:
I built the cairns on the Clark Peak Trail (through the burn) about 30 years ago. Got a chance to get up there last summer, they’re still standing (Couldn’t lift those stones today).

The Beauty of the Trail is amazing, only surpassed by the people you meet…
Pops c.

[blisterfree]

Hear hear! I've admired those fine, tall cairns many a time on my forays across the Grahams. Great to know a little bit of the history behind them and attribution. Nice work!

I guess there's one example of an area that has never returned to its former self after a wildfire. Presumably this was mixed conifer forest back in the day? Any idea about burn severity and whether erosion played a role in this case?

There was another fire a few years ago that lapped at the northern fringes of the 30 year old burn, just enough to kill off some of the overhanging oak scrub and mess up the trail a little more. The Safford RD hired a crew 2 summers ago that worked on Clark Peak Trail - really improved it between the parking lot and Pops' cairns, also heading up to Blue Jay Ridge (they worked over the Blue Jay Ridge Trail as well, removing many large blowdowns from the trail).

PS - If ordering trail wares via BPL back when such was an option, then yes, with apologies, you probably did pay too much.

[pops c]

I guess there's one example of an area that has never returned to its former self after a wildfire. Presumably this was mixed conifer forest back in the day? Any idea about burn severity and whether erosion played a role in this case?

The first summer I had worked the Clark Peak Trail (1979) it was full of snags w/ lots of blow-downs. The fire had been very intense.

I was very surprised this pass summer how little the area had changed, (Other than the snags had mostly fallen). The thick tall “stand” of ferns was established in 79; could this be why the forest has not re-established? I’m not sure…

Taylor Pass had filled in; I remember it as open w/ a howling wind.

[azbackpackr]

I've seen those before. I remember them from when we went family camping at the end of the Swift Trail. Turning left at the end of the road, there are campsites down a dirt track. I hiked Clark Peak at that time. It had been written up in Arizona Highways, with totally incorrect directions. Someone hiking there before me had thrown down his or her copy of the magazine, presumably in disgust, because the directions were so wrong!

[pops c]

From Admin post:
“All text related data (pretty much everything but photos) for almost a week was lost.”

So, Thru-hikers 2013 back on Subject

Loltron, Restless Adventurer (Hardcore), Trekker, Northbound2013, Loup, Writeronthestorm, Others? –

How’s the preparation coming?

I find myself packing and unpacking my backpack…this seems to help. (?)

On the subject of Hydration & water storage:
Good lesson here for the thru-hiker (or any hiker) thanks to Trevor at TArwood films for another great video! .

Dehydrated in Saguaro
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwZ85Oqt ... 1&index=12

Caution “F” bomb is dropped several times in video.

[jimbo4537]

Hello all, I am planning a thru hike for this spring and had a few questions. Does anyone know what the hitching is like? I am guess that it might take awhile in some spots. I normally use drops to treat my water, but was thinking that a filter might be a better option for this hike, any thoughts? And how is the water situation looking? I am hoping to start in mid-March (its coming up fast!). Thanks.

Indy

[jimbo4537]

Also, I have a pocket rocket and was wondering how easy/hard it was to get fuel for it while on the trail?

[pops c]

Hi jimbo-

Welcome to the discussion! From my “research” I’ll take a stab at your questions:

Does anyone know what the hitching is like?
Two popular hitches are Molino Basin on Mt Lemmon to resupply Tucson. Second is Sunflower south on SR 87 for resupply. Reports on these two hitches are favourable outside of that, I do not know.

I normally use drops to treat my water, but was thinking that a filter might be a better option for this hike, any thoughts?
Viruses are too small for filtration, protozoa in cyst form too stubborn for the “drops”.
My plan is filtration and disinfection.

And how is the water situation looking?
I would say South is below normal but not a deal killer. Central and Northern AZ doing well. (Forum users pls correct and/or chime in)

I have a pocket rocket and was wondering how easy/hard it was to get fuel for it while on the trail?
Flagstaff and S Rim easy; not sure on others?

Happy Trails,

[blisterfree]

Resupplying along the AZ Trail is surprisingly easy, considering the overall remoteness of the route. I can't think of too many trails of comparable length that have such a preponderance of on-trail and near-trail resupply points. Hitchhiking isn't really necessary in most cases, for example:

- Patagonia is located on-trail
- Colossal Cave / La Posta Quemada Ranch is a couple tenths of a mile off-trail, and may accept packages
- Summerhaven PO on trail
- Oracle 2.5 miles off trail
- Superior 5 miles off trail via the scenic LOST connector trail, with a possible ride back if staying at the Copper Mtn Motel
- Roosevelt Lake Marina nearly on trail (will hold packages)
- LF Ranch on trail (holds packages; with possible ride to Payson)
- Pine 1 mile off trail
- Mormon Lake PO 1 mile off trail
- Flagstaff on or near trail depending on route, with public transportation
- Tusayan ~on trail
- GC South & North Rim 1-2 miles off trail
- Jacob Lake Inn (accepts packages) 2.5 miles off trail

That's a lavish 13 potential resupply points over an 800 mile distance, or an average of nearly 2 a week while on a typical thru-hiker pace. The longest distance between resupplies would be ~105-110 miles between Flagstaff and Tusayan or GC South Rim, and that is generally easy terrain with higher mileage potential.

Throw out an eager thumb for the company and conversation, maybe, but not out of caloric necessity on this trail.

[blisterfree]

Aqua Mira can be a good choice for water treatment on the Arizona Trail. It's more effective at disabling both big cooties and little cooties than bleach or iodine, especially on silty water (eg, dirt stock tanks) that would also tend to clog a filter in short order. There's the romantic notion of a backpacker's water filter somehow extracting designer Evian from a wet pile of ranch water, but it's mostly a myth. And that goes for the frequency of encountering the unavoidable wet pile as well. Many more of the water sources are good than not.

[sirena]

Here's a new page that gives information about all the Gateway Communities of the Arizona Trail:
http://www.aztrail.org/gateway/gateway.html

Click on any of the highlighted town names, and it will take you to a town guide for that Gateway Community.

[blisterfree]

Interactive town guide... I like!

FWIW, just spoke with Copper Mtn Motel in Superior, which no longer has a public computer available, but does still offer rides back to the trail when they can. They're also planning to open a little cafe out front in the near future, offering coffee and... merchandise (logo-wear). There's even talk of offering ATV rentals out of the office. (Self-cache opportunity up by the FR 4 crossing might be useful in dry times.)

[jimbo4537]

Thanks for all the feedback! The interactive town guide is great. Bought my plane ticket yesterday. Can't wait to be on the trail.

[pops c]

The results of my research:

#1, Under the EPA Surface Water Treatment Rule: disinfection is determined by the inactivation and removal of Giardia and viruses.
http://www.epa.gov/ogwdw/mdbp/pdfs/qrg_ ... ltered.pdf

#2 From the Aquamira website:
"EPA Registered Water Treatment. Don't be fooled by water treatment products that claim EPA or FDA approval but do not list a valid EPA registration number or active ingredients. Aquamira Water Treatment (EPA Reg. # 9150-9-717660) is great for emergency water storage, RV storage tanks, treating larger batches of water such as cisterns, carboys and camp water systems. Aquamira Water Treatment Drops will not discolor water and will actually improve the taste of treated water."
http://aquamira.com/preparedness/aquami ... escription

Lets look at the “EPA Registered Water Treatment”

http://iaspub.epa.gov/apex/pesticides/f ... UM:71766-1
OK so Aquamira is registered w/ EPA Pesticide Product Label System
(Do not be freaked by the word “pesticide” that’s standard nomenclature)
Lets take a look at the label from Pg 4 of 9:

“A 2%] Aqueous Solution of Chlorine Dioxide for Use in controlling the Build Up of Slime in water storage containers Kills Odor Causing Bacteria and Enhances the Taste of Stored Potable Water”

http://www.epa.gov/pesticides/chem_sear ... 120710.pdf

Problem is, Slime and Odor Causing Bacteria is not necessarily what’s going to make me sick.
Review #1 Under the EPA Surface Water Treatment Rule “disinfection is determined by the inactivation and removal of Giardia and viruses”. Do you see any of these claims being made by Aquamira?

I have no doubt that if I filled my canteens today w/ safe potable Water and added Aquamira; that starting next months hike canteens would be slime and odor free (The product performed as advertized). Outside of that no claim or proof is made of turning raw surface water into potable drinking water.

Hike your own hike but be safe

[blisterfree]

I'll stay away from a public roundabout over the science here, but just note that there are scholarly articles about this, over at BPL for instance, and A.M. has been demonstrated to inactivate Protozoa and viruses as well as bacteria more readily than other portable water treatment solutions (drops, tablets etc), in part because it more effectively sterilizes "slime mold" bodies such as what often surround particulate matter (silt, leaves, dead insects, and other bits floating or in solution form within your water bottle - the bad guys like to hang out in this matter). Apparently these slime molds, microscopic initially, are difficult to treat with iodine or bleach, but are more readily treated with chlorine dioxide (A.M.) due to its aggressive oxygenation of the water (which is what purportedly improves the taste as well, although that's certainly a matter of opinion and circumstance).

Of course it's impossible to know for sure when your water is safe to drink, either before or after treatment, since we can't see the bad guys and don't necessarily know which bad guys in what numbers are really bad for us, individually, based on our unique immune response. All we can do is experiment, and admittedly a long hike is a risky laboratory in which to try out new things. I'll just say that in my experience, having used only A.M. on all of my SW hikes for the past 8 years, I have never had any G.I. issues at all, and that includes drinking from water sources that are hardly fit for a cow on occasion. Prior to this I tried everything from iodine (Potable Aqua and Polar Pure) to grapefruit seed extract to filter cartridges and routinely became sick at some point in the journey, including having to abandon a PCT thru as well as crawling through the 100 Mile Wilderness of Maine with sphagnum moss for toilet paper due to severe giardia-type symptoms. YMMV, but I'm a true believer in the efficacy of chlorine dioxide water treatment, regardless of the science behind it.

[nonot]

Most people do not let the aquamira work on the water for the requisite amount of time needed to kill spores. Also no filters sold will eliminate virus, virus removal requires chemical or UV treatment. However, virus removal from water sources is not typically a problem in the US, unless you are filtering from cow wallows.

[jimbo4537]

Rather than a debate of the effectiveness of Aqua Mira, how about we talk about what towns one can get isobutane/propane along the Arizona Trail?

[pops c]

Jimbo-

You might consider a "cat food can" stove for backup. I checked about a year ago, Patagonia Store stocked Heet, and if I recall correctly Summerhaven General Store had it.

Also Denatured Alcohol can be mail dropped. Follow the regs and take a copy w/ you to the PO in case you get an uninformed Postal Clerk.

Check your PM Messages

[Summitbagger]

Class of 2013; let’s start a discussion…

Trail Name:
Estimated Start Date:
Additional information:

Trail Name: "Summitbagger" (on the CDT in 2012). Previously, "Half Fast" on the PCT in 2011; "Thought Criminal" on the AT in 2008 and the Colorado Trail in 2009

Estimated Start Date: March 10, 2013.

Additional information: A friend has offered to drop me off at Coronado National Memorial on the return from a road trip to go rock climbing at Joshua Tree National Park. He has also offered to pick me up at Whitehouse Campground in Utah at the end of the trip and spend a couple of days going to slot canyons with me. There is a 20 mile hiking route from Wire Pass Trailhead (about a mile north of Stateline Campground) through Buckskin Gulch and Paria River Canyon, that I would like to do as a day hike after the Arizona Trail. Self-serve $6 day use permits are supposedly available at the trailhead, but overnight permits for this hike must be reserved months in advance and picked up in town.

I live in Denver, but my mother lives in Tucson, so I plan to stop there for a week or so after I hike through Saguaro National Park and mail out resupply boxes from there.

Hope to complete my last section of the CDT from Rawlins to Old Faithful Village, Wyoming this summer.