The Galiuros are burning

[RedRoxx44]

Oak fire, around China Peak, at about 800+ acres. I was told a long time ago by a guy who used to manage the air tankers for the western US that the management plan was to let it burn. This was a lightning start. Probably will not suppress it unless it gets into some rancher land in the foothills. Sad, but fire is a part of the ecosystem so will wait to see what this brings, something positive I hope.

[Dschur]

AZ-CNF-Oak
Fire is giving crews a fit today! Column visible from Douglas.

2 AA, 2 helos (T1, T2), 3 SEATS ordered

Globe, Ironwood, Carson, Del Rosa IHC also assigned since last post

From the http://www.wildlandfire.com website.

[RedRoxx44]

Yes, those FS jerks let it get away from them. The range is gone. Big forest fires= big money. My letter writing, news contacts and my complaints to the FS is just starting. There is no excuse for more black sticks. I think there is a money motivation and they are just giving lip service to letting it burn at this time. The fire management on this is a bunch of SOB's IMO. And I'm not backing down.

[azbackpackr]

Yes, those FS jerks let it get away from them. The range is gone. Big forest fires= big money. My letter writing, news contacts and my complaints to the FS is just starting. There is no excuse for more black sticks. I think there is a money motivation and they are just giving lip service to letting it burn at this time. The fire management on this is a bunch of SOB's IMO. And I'm not backing down.

Interesting point of view. I'm going to have to think about that one. (Not saying I disagree. Just hadn't thought about it.)

[RedRoxx44]

ARGHHH!! From inciweb-- today -Oak Fire

"
Last night aerial ignition (fuel-filled spheres which ignite upon impact with the ground, dropped from a helicopter) occurred along a ridgeline in the Kennedy Peak area. This was done to apply fire to the ridgeline and allow it to back down to lower elevations. Generally, backing fires burn more slowly and at lower intensities than fire burning uphill, resulting in consumption of ground fuels and minimal effects to mature trees. This operation was done above an area where the fire was already established."


Yes, do this in high temps and red flag wind warnings coming up in the next few days. The last hot spot of note was only about 1.25 miles from Power's Garden. Nice. I guess I will have to take yet another drive to the Galiuros this upcoming weekend too. Well I hope my anger at the FS is misplaced. Really not good for the blood pressure. However, I have a bad feeling about all of this, yet another paradise destroyed. I hope the shoot out cabin survives--if it makes it to Feb of 2017 it will be 100 years old.

[Sredfield]

They would wrap the buildings wouldn't they? (Yeah, like they wrapped Club Cabin in the Mazatzals.)

[RedRoxx44]

Well, in a short time I've called and left a message with the duty officer Coronado National Forest, plan to go to office in person Monday ( I have off work). I have written the channel 13 reporter ( Tucson) who has reported on the fire. I will follow up with other news outlets if no response there. Next, the newspapers, although those are pretty lame these days. Work is getting in the way of my more important activities.

[Sredfield]

I sent a message to the Forest Supervisor.

[Jim]

Calm down and stop being so emotional.

The fire is meeting management objectives, and the burn pattern is mosaic. The fire is being managed within a planned area boundary using strategy and tactics. It is necessary to minimize impacts to sensitive areas and values at risk while maximizing benefits to natural resources. The fire is expected to grow to the south and west of the China Peak area until a monsoonal weather pattern settles in the wildfire area.

Last night aerial ignition (fuel-filled spheres which ignite upon impact with the ground, dropped from a helicopter) occurred along a ridgeline in the Kennedy Peak area. This was done to apply fire to the ridgeline and allow it to back down to lower elevations. Generally, backing fires burn more slowly and at lower intensities than fire burning uphill, resulting in consumption of ground fuels and minimal effects to mature trees. This operation was done above an area where the fire was already established.

Added: inciweb.nwcg.gov/incident/photographs/3901/ Just copy and paste the link if you want to see actually photographs and not just read scare tactics.

How anyone can post such insane ramblings about genocide, when talking about this fire, confounds me.

[rwstorm]

@Jim_H
We wondered why you disappeared. Took RedRoxx to flush you out.

[Jim]

Well, I'll refrain from getting into an argument over fire and policy, especially when I have written fire is inevitable, but saying these are FS jerks, and getting huffy while being ignorant of details is over blowing it.

[mazatzal]

@Jim_H IMO the FS suppression of the past decades makes them jerks, we pay for it now with much bigger fires.

[Jim]

Bad or past management policies of previous generations doesn't make the present people jerk. We do have many large fires, but would should have large fires. Their intensity should be lower. Also, as with most things, putting something like fire back into the system is not going to be instantly perfect.

[rwstorm]

@Jim_H
On this point I agree with you. I see both sides on the handling of the situation. When it is something dear to your heart (like the Huachucas for me) it is easy to get knee jerk emotional. Tricky part is handling the vagaries of the weather conditions in these situations (think Bandelier 2000). Everything is a trade off.

[Jim]

Recall that this is "natural" lightning started fire.

I have different opinions about near and dear, since I like to see them burn. Even the Schultz, now is an interesting area to see respond post fire. Same for the Gila, post Whitewater-Baldy/ Miller, and in the McKenna Park area.

[big_load]

It seems to me that fuel is plentiful in much of the range. I'm glad I've already seen as much of the Galiuros as I have. I hope the fire doesn't affect any historic/prehistoric artifacts.

[chumley]

As somebody who has no emotional attachment to the Galiuros (having never been there, despite being on 'the list') I am saddened, but intrigued. The discussion above is one that prompts many questions for me. I see the FS lets some fires burn for "beneficial" effects. But for the most part, I really wonder how things have changed over the decades. Do we really manage fires any differently than the way they have been managed in decades past?

I know that in theory we know that fires are healthy and need to happen, but because of mismanagement in the past and the resultant possibility for catastrophic fires, doesn't the FS generally attempt to suppress most fires now in exactly the same way as they did 30 years ago?

And when they are able let fires burn naturally, isn't it in the attempt to return the landscape to a state where catastrophic fire isn't a common possibility anymore? The catch being when there is valuable property, critical watershed, etc. in the way and they can't let it burn itself out?

Tough decisions. I suspect that unfortunately money is a greater influence than nature. Even in "wilderness areas" such as the Galiuros. Or maybe because it's a Wilderness Area is why they are letting it do as Nature decides?

[RedRoxx44]

When your house burns down see how you feel. Why not burn in winter or post monsoon when there is some moisture in the fuel loads and maybe not all the brush will burn but at least some of it?? Why not look at the situation individually and decide how to manage the fire and now that a lot of the sky islands are so overgrown realize that the fire management needs to be carefully considered. It was in a lot of open areas creeping around. Why let it make the big timber candle sticks?? Lots of bear,deer etc in there.

MONEY--- Lots of money, people are paid. Post fire rehab and flood management- more money. Secure funding for the next few months ,next year. New equipment, better equipment, - More money. Then the rehab for trails through black sticks that only a few people will use--again money.

This mtn range is perfect because of the low human attention to it, low risk for destruction to more than a few ranchers interest.

Maybe I wouldn't be so pissed if I hadn't been there and seen part of it, and was not alarmed, I should have known better.

[Jim]

You really just don't know what you are talking about. I typically don't care, but ignorance should not be used to influence policy. We have far too much of that in this country.

Edit updates:
Rather than respond to later ramblings and insanity posts, I shall clarify in my original posts.

I wrote the above quoted text because you very clearly do not know what you were getting extremely angry and emotional over. You accuse people of having a motivation with certainty, but then ask questions so basic, it demonstrated that you know/ knew nothing about fire management. You make assumptions without basis, and later confirmed this. You also chose to ignore my quotes from inciweb, and ignored the posts on inciweb at the time, talking about a mosaic pattern of burning. You immediately jumped to it being all doom and gloom, and since you had at one point posted on how it might be a beneficial fire to clear brush, and inciweb made no such remarks about doom and gloom, I can only assume it was a jump based on 1 photo of a smoke plume. A large smoke column can mean a lot of things, but it doesn't always mean the same thing. Without seeing effects on the ground, you were being overly emotional, as I had posted earlier.

Then, while I otherwise could care less what opinions you hold, the self assigned media blitzing was what bothered me. The media and public information posts in Safford, AZ, likely had little to do with you or other people calling about the evils of the FS, and more to do with smoke. You ignored such things as the FS reporting inversion layers trapping smoke in Safford, and since many with no opinion of FS management still object to smoke in their towns, the FS responded with information in Safford, not Tucson. A Tucson response would have made more sense if they were combating negative public opinion about managed fire.

[RedRoxx44]

Opinions are appreciated and noted. I have my opinion and would really like to be proved wrong. Again, as the fire was burning it looked good. Why not firm up some boundaries, look at weather, then decide what the chances are it could become a problem versus a benefit?? I am sure the FS has some configuration for this--- and also a funding configuration and goal.

I'll ask on Monday when I visit.

[Jim]

They already have extensive fire models, plans, and goals.

Resources assigned include one Wildland Fire Module,...

Read what is written on the inciweb site, and don't draw conclusions based on 2 images on HAZ taken on Mount Lemmon. Even with that large column, you can't tell what the area which was burning looked like. Though not stated for daytime operations, burning operations that generate a lot of smoke are better for moving smoke higher and further away. They do not necessarily indicate a crown fire.

Funding isn't the driving issue in a small, insignificant fire like the Oak.