Aug 26, 2021, approximately 10:45 a.m., a 65-lb. mountain lion attacked the boy in his front yard, inflicting wounds to his head, neck and upper torso. The boy’s mother fended off the lion by striking it multiple times. The boy’s parents transported him to a hospital where he was treated for his injuries. He remains in the hospital in stable condition.
Research seems to indicate that the attack was from a year-old cub birthed by a collared lion in an NPS study. The attacking cub was eliminated, while the mother (and presumably the other cub) were returned to the wild.
If you are unfamiliar with Calabasas, it is similar to parts of the Carefree/Cave Creek area with affluent residents and larger properties tucked up against mountains that are preserved from development.
I'm not sure what my spirit animal is, but I'm confident it has rabies.
@Pivo
Makes ya wonder who is RUNNING this "Take the Apex out of the Predator" program?
"The censorship method ... is that of handing the job over to some frail and erring mortal man, and making him omnipotent on the assumption that his official status will make him infallible and omniscient."
George Bernard Shaw
Ban on big cat hunting will be on Colorado’s fall ballot. Hunters took 502 mountain lions in the 2022-2023 season, according to a harvest report compiled by Colorado Parks and Wildlife. In recent years, an average of 880 bobcats have been killed annually through hunting and fur trapping.
As a hunter, I was never onboard with the hunting of apex predators; seems unnatural and disruptive to an ecosystem.
If left natural (i.e. if the ban passes) then predators will eventually overbreed and decimate the prey species. Unfortunately since we no longer have a natural ecosystem, this means that at that time, starving mountain lions and bobcats will be wandering into local communities looking to snack on fluffy and small children. Or else show up on farms and ranches where they snack on chickens and cattle. So in maybe 10 years public opinion will probably swing back to the current artificial means of predator population regulation as people tend to not to react as kindly when their pets and kids end up as food, or when their livestock are decimated.
Seems like a more reasonable measure would be to push for a lower hunting tag limit and see its effect over many years to find the right balance between public incidents and total population. But asking politicians to be reasonable is like yelling into the wind.
Hike Arizona it is full of sharp, pointy, ankle-twisting, HAZmaster crushing ROCKS!!
Hike Arizona it is full of sharp, pointy, shin-stabbing, skin-shredding plants!
Hike Arizona it is full of striking, biting, stabbing, venomous wildlife!
I saw that it's a initiative which gained enough signatures to be placed on the ballot. Any idea who or what organization got it on the fall ballot? That doesn't seem like something that's really pressing to the average person or any politician. Was it the Colorado cuddly cat coalition?
nonot wrote:If left natural (i.e. if the ban passes) then predators will eventually overbreed and decimate the prey species.
I am in disagreement with that. There's a cycle to prey/predator balance. The more prey equals more predators, then when the prey numbers are diminished that will do the same to the predator populations. It's a rare occurrence when a child, a properly cared for pet is taken. Sure we read about pets being taken, yet there's far more domestic dogs, cats than mountain lions, bobcats, bears and coyotes in Colorado.
Livestock is another issue, defending and protecting them is a right of ownership. Livestock Guardian Dogs (LGD) and donkeys are effective countermeasures to predators, additionally a good old 12 ga shotgun with proper loads, when defending stock.
Alston_Neal wrote:I am totally amazed by this number, never would have thought there was even that many. I wonder what percentage of total population this would be?
After the reintroduction of Desert Big Horn Sheep in the Santa Catalina mountains Grotto Girl volunteered a group of us to do research for AZG&F regarding the high mortality rates of the DBHS from mountain lion predation. While in training, I asked the biologist how many mountain lions lived in the range. He replied, there could be 1000, they really didn't know. It's very hard to do a census on such a secretive animal. Over a period of ten years hiking daily, I have only seen one.
Follow up on the DBHS in the Santa Catalina Mountains. The AZG&F Dept, never made public their conclusions. Yet they moved sheep from the Kofa Wildlife Refuge; as I understand it, there are no mountain lions in the refuge. The poor sheep had to figure it out on the fly. The other unfortunate consequence was they started killing the mountain lions for doing what mountain lions do.
For the 2022-2023 hunting season, which lasts nine months, the Arizona Game and Fish Department set mountain lion harvest thresholds at 354 lions. A study published by Howard et al. (2020) estimated the statewide subadult and adult population to be 1166-1715 mountain lions
Alston_Neal wrote:Pivo wrote:
Hunters took 502 mountain lions in the 2022-2023 season
I am totally amazed by this number, never would have thought there was even that many. I wonder what percentage of total population this would be?
Okay, so Alston said this, referring to COLORADO, but all subsequent comments were in reference to ARIZONA. Let's keep it straight, guys. How much time do you actually spend in Colorado, Alston?
There is a point of no return unremarked at the time in most lives. Graham Greene The Comedians
A clean house is a sign of a misspent life.
azbackpackr wrote:Okay, so Alston said this, referring to COLORADO, but all subsequent comments were in reference to ARIZONA. Let's keep it straight, guys
Good point!
Again, from the Mountain Lion Foundation (which is a conservation organization that seems at odds with most state hunting programs) https://mountainlion.org/us/colorado/
A 2003 Colorado Parks and Wildlife report notes that “Colorado does not regularly estimate puma populations because no reliable, cost-effective sample-based population estimation technique currently exists.”
Well cool now I know the population in CO and AZ. Both states have numbers higher than I expected. It also made me reflect on all the nights tent camping in the San Juans with a toddler. Then we were more concerned with bears, never thinking of lions at all.
Boy, if I had a nickel for every sleepless night I have experienced while camping, laying awake while thinking about what might happen if I were to have an unexpected encounter with an aggressive cougar.
@The_Eagle
That was too easy. I decided to keep the integrity of the group high and move on. Although I did think of Scottsdale and the Chumster when I read it.
Jim_H wrote: ↑Aug 04 2024 11:15 am
Boy, if I had a nickel for every sleepless night I have experienced while camping, laying awake while thinking about what might happen if I were to have an unexpected encounter with an aggressive cougar.
I don't worry too much about mountain lions, but sometimes a mouse in the leaves scares the heck out of me.
I do know what you mean about mice. In August of 2010 while camping in Montana just north of the Yellowstone NP entrance, I kept hearing them rustling in the duff. I was afraid of bears, but the only thing I found when I woke up was rodent poop in my shoe.
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