New to backpacking need someone to help me get started

[brand0n]

Hello guys, My name is Brandon I'm 16, And I'm just getting into backpacking so I kinda need some pointers to get me going in the right direction . With that said I'm starting to set up a 2-3 day pack. I have a pack, I just got a north face Terra 30 on sale I'm not sure if that is the preferred size for a 3 day pack, But I figure it wold be big enough to get me started. I'm looking into knifes, sleeping bags, light tents(I'm 6'4 around 190lb), stoves,water filters, rain gear, and good long term hiking clothing. I have been looking around on REI, Campmor, and my local sporting goods store(Ralphie's Red Ryder) for gear and advice and there isn't much help there for backpackers/hikers which really blows but anyone with any help wold be a blessing for me.
thanks
-Brandon
P.S. my mom doesn't like the fact that I'm 16 and want to go backpacking, So if there is any groups or young people that could accompany me on a few trips that wold be great just to give my mom some piece of mind.

[azbackpackr]

Michaelg the main issue we backpackers talk about out here in AZ is water. And we don't build shelters because, at least in the desert, it destroys vegetation that may have taken 200 or 300 years to grow. It goes against the leave-no-trace ethics, and also may be illegal in some areas.

Water is the issue. Orienting oneself is usually not difficult here, either, even without a compass. But water will continue to be an issue. People planning an extended backpacking trip are mostly concerned with how many dry camps they may have to make. They have to know their own limitations, plus how much water 1 gallon, 2 gallons, do they have to carry if they need to dry camp. They will need more water if the temperature is above 90 or 100 degrees while they are hiking. You will see a lot of conversations about which springs go dry, or which creeks run dry at certain times of the year, etc. And then, you do have wet years and dry years, wet winters, dry winters, and sometimes you have very little monsoon rain one year, other years it is a deluge.

Most people in hot dry desert hiking over 100 degrees cannot do without water for even one day or they will die. They die every year from this very thing. Mexican immigrants die in droves from this, also, walking across the border deserts. It is not something to be taken cavalierly, or to brag how long you can go without water. Heat stroke is deadly, and knowing how to prevent it is a major number one factor in desert hiking. Also knowing your own limitations, which will be totally different out here than in wet rainy woodlands.

Some long Grand Canyon hikes, for example, are best done in spring so you get some snow runoff from the rims. Early fall after a good monsoon, or late spring, may find more water in the Catalinas and Rincons than other times of the year. It is knowledge like this that is useful here. The Blue Range, it is useful to know, gets very dry on the east side of the Blue River by the end of June, a lot of the creeks run dry, but on the west side of the river the creeks are more reliable. It is knowledge like this that I am looking for on this website if I am going into an unfamiliar area.

[Jim]

Are there really that many people taking off trail cross country trips that require a compass to orient? I remember using, or attempting to use one back east to navigate through some stands we were working in. It really wasn't useful, since you have to locate things in the distance and orient to them, and then reorient again and again, and so on, but due to dense forests and operator error and obstacles we would encounter, it wasn't usually very accurate. I would think over large spaces you would have far better luck with maps and being familiar with the terrain you entered, or just staying on trail. Then again, this is probably little more than how it looks to people not involved.

Got to agree with Liz, there are very few places around here where water availability isn't an issue. Many places are drying up from years of impacts, both local and regional. Agree about building shelters. It is just good wilderness ethics to take in and out what you need. I disagree with people who live off the land when they enter, including fish, unless taken from a stocked source. Though the perceived impacts may be small, everything we do in a location has an impact, and it is the best ethic to minimize it as much as possible. That includes fires, food, waste, campsite selection, and how and where you travel.

Hippies are fun to blame, but it was actually an Environmental Law Group that stopped the thinning in the Schultz Pass area. Then when re-approved, the economy tanked and no one wanted to buy the wood. Yes, it took decades to get that way, but that also had more to do with stubborn policies, economics, and concerns over the public and smoke. The fire itself was started by an abandoned "camp fire", but I have heard hearsay that claimed it was actually a bonfire of pallets which was abandoned by Californians (of course) late the night before, probably after the beer ran out.

[te_wa]

ah, spoken like a steward.

i have never used a compass. my route finding skills evolved over several years of wandering about. maybe im just a homing pidgeon, and not a squirrel after all...

i can give you one bit of advice tho, he who packs lighter has more fun, end of story. pack what you need to survive, luxuries are for city life, and let go of things you think you need "just in case". you'll never use them.
aim for a base pack weight of under 20 lbs. 15 lbs is even better. with experience, or a damn good mentor, you can go sub 10 pounds (considered "ultralight)
ok, so that was more than one bit. oh well, how do you do..

[paulhubbard]

P.S. my mom doesn't like the fact that I'm 16 and want to go backpacking, So if there is any groups or young people that could accompany me on a few trips that wold be great just to give my mom some piece of mind.

Has anyone stepped up to the plate on Brandon's request? I see lots of opinions on what he should or should not do? But come on... Brandon, if I was a backpacker I would certainly be happy to go out on a learning adventure, into a fun but not too technical or taxing area. Maybe just watch for a two day event here and ask if you can get a ride and join in?

[imike]

Are there really that many people taking off trail cross country trips that require a compass to orient?

Same for me... used one way back when I started getting out and about... over time just found I was better off having a clear thought about the general area. But, for folks without a solid "feel" for directions, it might be vital. It is likely just different for each of us. I spend 100's of days each year off trail, wandering around. I rarely look at a map until after I'm home, wondering where I was. I usually carry just water, food... often forgetting to take enough, camera, phone... gloves if I remember to toss them in. If the weather suggests a problem, I pack a parka. But, that is the end result of 50 years of hiking... and not necessarily the smartest approach to being out and about. I think it might be wise to start out with too much... and as skills increase, then make determined choices.

I do not know how to address the issue of what should really be in someone's pack all the time... since I hike solo, I feel fine about not having anything with me, yet I've had SAR sharply criticize some of my outings. Their opinion is that by not having all those "essentials" I am placing them in danger...? Not certain how this issue could ever be decided. In some ways, it could be self determining. If I really do need all that stuff, logically I'll get into enough trouble eventually that I just will not make it home...

...more likely, though... I'll trip over a ledge right here in town with a fully loaded pack on one of my stupid weighted pack training days!

[Canyonram]

Walk in Beauty. @michaelg

[michaelg]

yeah i agree about the Schultz fire - it is the enviromentalist - but where did they come from (Hippies who went into government). They mean well, but when it comes to managing forest, leave it to the people who have years of experience. Not people basing their facts on emotions from to many bambi movies. I am from a family of foresters so I will always have the opinions from both sides, and I agree both can be right, but man has alweays been a part of the enviroment as well. Why do people forget this, and act like we just landed here on earth and we are not part of it, so we should not distrub it. No we have been here alongside the animals and plants from the beginning, so we should get involded with nature. I been a vegan and a butcher, but I get so tired of people who are clueless to the realities of life. they want to protect aninmals but waste the hamburger they just couldnt finish. I grew up killing my food up close and spent my life butchering them, so I am very connected to my food source. there is something very hard to raise rabbits for food, when you love and care for them as well. When I eat, I see more than most folks see. get so tired of enviromentalist city folks that preach all this stuff they do, but never had to live in the real world, closer to the earth. I do respect the woods, and the animals, and I never kill for the fun of it. I am very selective as if they are my brothers. I am a half breed so I do live like an native. I grew up in the swamps of Georgia with my Creek ancesters and South carolina and spent many years with my family in Cherokee, which they are still there, living off the land, and the Smokies and the Okee still looks beautiful. it is all about respect. I rarely build a shelter that will effect the enviroment, and personal I dont do a fire much anymore. i am training myself to live more like a scout. I would never use something that took 300 years to grow. I would simply find natural built shelters I didnt even built, like a fir tree or a sun warmed rock outcrops out of the wind. But thats my choice. yah make me sound like a crazy person out chopping the woods down like paul bunyon. I urge you to walk in my shoes and maybe it will make a lot more sense, where my family was the first ones here in America and it was the Europeans who impacted us. Your impact effected my family history way more than me making a debris hut in the woods or picking a few blackberries by the creekside. You about wiped out my culture forever. Backpacking to me is about reconnecting to my roots, not just the roots of family but my rootsd to the earth, which I was made from, and the God which gave me and everything around me the spirit which to live.

I would be glad to take this guy out and show him or teach him. just say the word and i will be ready. i think i am going to use this page as a personal journal and avoid talking anymore. its been real. if you want to talk to me, then write me personally.

[te_wa]

but man has alweays been a part of the enviroment as well. Why do people forget this, and act like we just landed here on earth and we are not part of it, so we should not distrub it. No we have been here alongside the animals and plants from the beginning, so we should get involded with nature.

a sure way to understand the issue is something you said yourself, unconsciously no doubt. try this: replace your word "the" environment with "our" environment and quickly realize the power of word(s)
this is the one single word that is lacking, to give the idea a deeper meaning. but you wont hear it on the news or in the rags. just here, from me ;)

[Jim]

Impacts, who did what to whom, and so on and so forth....my point is that the more we impact the places we want to visit, the less they are those places we want to visit. If you want to do a lot to the land and build shelters everywhere, hunt for your meals, and pretend to be a primitive hunter gather with 21st century technological advantages, please go back east to places that have such an incredibly high impact from people that it hardly matters anymore. The desert is a slow to recover place that has a very low carrying capacity and yet it is still closer to it's pre-European state than most of the rest of the country, so treating it like a loblolly pine plantation in the south is not feasible. Hardly any place east of the 100th meridian hasn't been cut-down, plowed under, seeded to an exotic and then abandoned to be taken over by weedy species, so it is almost pointless to call things in the east "natural". Not quite so out here, but for how long with the attitude of, "god gave us this and we can do as we please"? Rocky mountainous soils and places like the Flint Hills in Kansas are some of the few exceptions to this, but for the most part we have succeeded in completely altering the pre-Columbian appearance of much of North America, and so continuing to believe we can simultaneously be a part of nature while destroying it is not only contradictory, but is a value which I would prefer to keep out of our wild-lands. Now, that says nothing of people who could care less, and ride ATVs cross country, or have big bonfires and then abandon them, or overgraze grasslands because they get cheap government subsidized forage for their cows, or strip mine entire mountains to get cheap coal, but in regard to people who claim to respect the "environment", or more appropriately the ecosystem, it is nice to see some level of understanding of what is not responsible behavior and I hope that we can all (not specifically you) do what we can to keep our hiking, packing, climbing, and other outdoor activities to a minimal impact level.

Not too sure how many attorneys are pot smoking do nothing hippies, law school would probably weed them out, what with the large amount of reading, writing and legal thinking they need to do. More likely is that they are the well meaning former college "save everything" kids who have had everything provided for them and don't really know much about resources and consumption and so on, but whatever. The environmental law group that stopped the Schultz area thinning is a private organization. They are not a government group, or funded by the government. The FS, as a government agency, actually wanted to do something out there. I was a forester once, where did you go to school? I went to Fl, did you go to GA? I really don't miss the south at all. Longleaf pine and it's open park-like forest stands (when actually in that condition) is great, but you never get to work in it and everything else is business which centers on strict productivity. It's basically fiber farming. So, I hardly have any warm fuzzy feelings for the south, or the east. Besides, ponderosa pine forests are very similar and far nicer to be in; drier, no real insects to speak of, and they usually have a nice fragrance.

[azbackpackr]

Well, said, Jim.

[brand0n]

Also, find something to connect with while out on your hike besides going from point A to point B. Geology, wildlife, photography, how to find water, etc. One of my favorites is "The Science and Art of Tracking" by Tom Brown, JR. He explains how to read tracks and what the animal (or person) is doing. (That's me on the trail with his nose in the dirt looking for tracks).[/quote]
I'm planing to be a forest ranger so i want to get books on trees and forest animals bugs exc anything that will help me gain experience in the great outdoors

[Al_HikesAZ]

BrandOn - Arizona Game & Fish has a monthly publication called Wildlife Views. I think it's $8 or so per year. Great articles on wildlife and conservation and some humorous anecdotes from Game Wardens. I think this month's was about aerial observations and barf bags. Also check in at the Tonto Forest Service Mesa Ranger Station. There are many volunteer opportunities. There are some college programs so get some help from your counselors or talk with some of the folks higher up at the Mesa Ranger Station. Tell them you are doing a project on why they like their job. We need good dedicated Rangers and Game Wardens. Some of us respect them ;) The best survival book I recommend to you is Cody Lundin's http://hikearizona.com/books.php?REV=1&ID=64&STu= The paradigm is about getting found, not about wilderness survival per se.

[brand0n]

WOW! I figured I left the high school shenanigans about 6hours ago!!! I'm open to all suggestions I'm (NEW) to this game, But I'm not stupid I know what is way to cool bushwhack survivalist style and whats supper gear reliant don't leave the house with out cell phone in hand style but im not going to risk my life without proper training which i can see in your eyes its not a bad idea to leave the house and enter the backwoods with a knife and a pair of good boots, but im not that experienced in the survival field. I do plan to enroll in randals survival training the founder of esee knifes(rat cutlery) to get that type of training but b4 that happens that compass is tagging along trust me, along with a supper cool piece of new gear ill tell you bout in a second. but come on guys i like to hear more opinions and less drama. Trust me I go to high school and have a girlfriend there's all the drama i need. but getting into some of the stuff i want to talk about my mom just got me a spot gps messenger deal which is supper sweet it weighs less than my cell phone and can send gps messages to my mom saying im ok, need local help, or even in a sos situation i can get emergency/professional help which i think is a great peace of mind when i plan my first backpacking trip! let me know if you have a spot what you think!also the hiker pro filter sounds like something everyone leans too any pros or cons that come along with it?

[brand0n]

BrandOn - Arizona Game & Fish has a monthly publication called Wildlife Views. I think it's $8 or so per year. Great articles on wildlife and conservation and some humorous anecdotes from Game Wardens. I think this month's was about aerial observations and barf bags. Also check in at the Tonto Forest Service Mesa Ranger Station. There are many volunteer opportunities. There are some college programs so get some help from your counselors or talk with some of the folks higher up at the Mesa Ranger Station. Tell them you are doing a project on why they like their job. We need good dedicated Rangers and Game Wardens. Some of us respect them ;) The best survival book I recommend to you is Cody Lundin's http://hikearizona.com/books.php?REV=1&ID=64&STu= The paradigm is about getting found, not about wilderness survival per se.

thanks for the info im trying to get into volunteer work but every where i go its a cold shoulder which sucks! but ill be sure to get to the station and talk face to face with a person than talk to someone 500 miles away and i just gave my mom the book title hopefully she can buy it tomorrow after work i hope its a borders

[Canyonram]

Here's the US Army Survival Manual FM 21-76. You can buy this via Amazon.com or get if FOR FREE here:
http://preppers.info/uploads/FM21-76_SurvivalManual.pdf

http://www.amazon.com/Tracker-Tom-Brown ... 357&sr=1-1
Tom Brown's 'The Tracker' is his biography about learning about the wilderness and learning to read Nature. A favorite.

You can make your own gear with some of the instructions at this website. Look along the left-hand side for the different designs (including a few homemade stove---I use one I made from cat food cans.) http://www.backpacking.net/makegear.html

Learn as much as you can and take responsibility for your safety. Don't pull the emergency rescue button on that GPS signal beacon if you stub your toe. LOL
http://www.adn.com/2009/10/25/987125/yu ... calls.html

Best of luck and keep posting and let us know how it's going (we promise to keep the drama to a minimum).

[paulhubbard]

have a girlfriend there's all the drama i need.

I hope she doesn't cruise these forums!

[BobP]

@brand0n
Very mature post for a young guy....I know a few guys that like the Spot....mostly to keep Mom happy. I have the Katadyn Hiker Pro which I like but also use Micro pur tabs if I know the area well and the water sources. Use this website and most of all have fun.

[JimmyLyding]

It's obvious that Brandon has figured out who he should believe and who he shouldn't. A good idea is to test everything out before you go on a trip. Fire up your stove in the backyard, etc. REI is a great place to get gear, but you have to be selective about the advice you receive. I've gotten advice there that ranges from outstanding to dangerously bad. This site is an excellent source of information, but I think you've figured out that even this requires a filter.
Keep checking the Hiking Events forum, and you'll soon find a trip that interests you. Even going on a group dayhike can expose you to people with extensive backpacking knowledge.
I never use a compass, but I've always used a map, GPS or both. Study your map beforehand because you may lose it on your trip. Wearing a watch is an excellent idea. You always want to be aware of the time of day, and also always know when sunset is.
I subscribe to the idea that it's a good idea to carry anything you reasonably might need rather than only the things you definitely will need. Be prepared! Keeping safe is more important than having a light pack, especially for a beginner. Te-wa and nonot are very advanced backpackers, and you should definitely pay attention to their advice, but you don't want to try to be them right off the bat.
Additionally, research your trip before you go.

Some random ideas (sorry if I repeat what others have written):
*Don't hike in a cotton shirt. Cotton is fine for wearing around camp, however. You don't want to wear a shirt that accumulates moisture when you're hiking, especially if you're carrying any sort of weight on your back.
*Always wear sunscreen. Always!
*SmartWool socks are the way to go.
*Know your limits physically, emotionally, and logistically. Don't be foolish enough to keep going when your gut tells you not to. There's always next weekend as long as you don't make stupid mistakes. Sometimes things happen outside of your control or foresight like a May snowstorm or a ringtail cat steals your food, so just chalk it up to experience. Macho-ness kills numerous people every year in the outdoors. Telling a great story is not nearly as important as being alive to tell any story.

[te_wa]

Cotton is fine for wearing around camp, however.

especially if it reads:
"Dogfish Head 90 minute IPA"

[JimmyLyding]

"Dogfish Head 90 minute IPA"

Better in you than on you