46% of the Worlds Land mass is still wilderness

tracker · Post by **tracker** » Dec 05 2002 9:30 am

I saw this article online and would like to share it with you.

http://www.bayarea.com/mld/mercurynews/ ... 662024.htm

ck_1 · Post by **ck_1** » Dec 06 2002 2:07 pm

Daryl wrote:Couldn’t resist…

If you want to volunteer to give up your television, house, car, computer, vow not to have kids, agree to die before you reach 70 years old… then you can complain about over population and pollution all you want. Otherwise, you are part of the problem.

Daryl - have you seen that commercial that has the VW Eurobus at stop sign..it's covered in "Greenpeace","ReduceReuseRecycle", "Stop pollution" and similar bumper stickers, driven of course by hippies...and one of those new Hybrid cars, I think the honda one, pulls up next to it, and the announcer says (or the line appears) "Actions speak louder than words" ??..your post made me think of that add...I thought it was a good one...

jeremy77777 · Post by **jeremy77777** » Dec 06 2002 7:49 pm

Well...I must say a few things. The U.S. is the largest producer of toxic waste because we are the most developed. Plain and simple. We have the best pollution and toxic waste restrictions in the world. If any other country was as productive as ours, they would have ten times the amount of pollution. Most of the world that is crying about the US being big polluters are the crappy little 3rd world countries. As for the water running out...pure rubbish. There might be less water in some places than there was before, but then there is more somewhere else. For example, It was a very dry season here in AZ. Hardly any rain. But in other parts of the country, they had record amounts of rain. The earth will replenish itself. As for other resources, if something were to run out, which it won't, do you really think that the human race would just turn up and die? NO. I don't think so. And the percentages that these researchers pull out of their butts are just theories or guesses. They can't say what the world will be like in 1000, 100, 10, or even one year. They can't predict the future. They don't have the power to. And as for the goverment official blame game...It is NEVER just one persons fault. Think about all the people who have to contribute to any law that gets passed. I won't blame Clinton for anything. He was just a horny highschool boy that happened to be a spokesman pawn for the D-liberal party. I don't think that much of what he did was ever his ideas. But like I said, you can never blame just one man...

ellehcim · Post by **ellehcim** » Dec 06 2002 8:09 pm

How's this...with 6.1 billion people drawing from the resources of this planet, the amount of crops, animals and other biomatter we extract from the earth each year exceeds what the planet can replace by about 20%...this means it takes about 14.5 months to replace what we use in 12 months...creating an ever growing deficit....human population is part of nature, but it is a controllable variable, whereas the resource of the planet...soil, water...are not infinite, but rather finite.

Soil and water are definitely not infinite, but please show me how humans are using it up... As for us exceeding our resources by 20% PER Year that must mean that the planet has 5 years before it becomes completely desolate... The end must be nearer than I thought....

I am in favor of the NRA but I only believe about 10% of the crap they post as propoganda... I believe alot less about the green side of propoganda.

azhiker96 · Post by **azhiker96** » Dec 06 2002 10:58 pm

I figure the earth will keep humans in check just as it does other species. When any population gets too dense for it's environment, mother nature response with starvation, disease, and war. Look at the microenvironment commonly called Africa. Genocide, starvation and disease are working to keep the population in line with available resources. Yes, it's harsh but then mother nature never was the kind lady from margarine commercials. Lions, snakes, foxes, and owls do not practice humane killing techniques.
I'd rather see us limit ourselves so that we don't face that kind of culling of the herd. None of the political parties have done enough to develop renewable energy resources. The biggest problem I see here is the constant resource drain called lawsuit. If someone is hurt, they immediately look for big pockets to sue. If they don't like the outcome of an election, they sue. If they injure themselves through their own ignorance they sue. What's lacking is a sense of personal responsiblity or willingness to take risks. Considering that congress has a huge percentage of lawyers, it's not likely we'll get tort reform in my lifetime.
I appreciate the postings on this thread. Now I've gotta go get ready for a hike.

scottmackey · Post by **scottmackey** » Dec 07 2002 12:46 pm

azhiker96 wrote:I figure the earth will keep humans in check just as it does other species. When any population gets too dense for it's environment, mother nature response with starvation, disease, and war. Look at the microenvironment commonly called Africa. Genocide, starvation and disease are working to keep the population in line with available resources.

That's exactly what I was getting at, thanks for the better explanation. Humans are going to eventually have a population overshoot where something like azhiker mentioned will occur and drastically reduce the amount of people on the planet. I'm not saying that we need to start letting the elderly and the young die from natural causes that can prevented, far from it. I was just making a point that science and poor education are the two biggest causes of our current population explosion.

jeremy77777 wrote:We have the best pollution and toxic waste restrictions in the world. If any other country was as productive as ours, they would have ten times the amount of pollution.

Wow, you really think the U.S. has the best pollution and toxic waste restirctions in the world? How about New Zealand, Australia and Scandinavian countries? We emit 25% of the world's annual greenhouse gases, but only make up 4% of the world's population. This isn't because we're more productive, it simply means we're more careless and business-oriented.

I need to stop.

jeremy77777 · Post by **jeremy77777** » Dec 07 2002 1:18 pm

And again, more statistics that are pulled out of someones butt. You can't accurately predict the output of pollution of a country. There is just far too many factors. To acctually think you can is just foolish. And as for previously mentioned countries, it's like I said, If any other country was as productive as ours, they would have ten times the amount of pollution. I'm talking about all the factors. America has the most cars, therefore we put out the most pollution. If other countries had as many, they would be putting out far more pollution. We have the harshest restrictions. Our life here in America is far better than anywhere else. And if anyone thinks this country sucks, than they can leave the country and go live in a cave with the Tali's.

scottmackey · Post by **scottmackey** » Dec 07 2002 4:30 pm

Fair enough.

jeremy77777 · Post by **jeremy77777** » Dec 07 2002 4:58 pm

BoyNhisDog · Post by **BoyNhisDog** » Dec 07 2002 5:58 pm

To get back on topic, we have an amazing amount of wilderness right here in Arizona. There may be a lot of people but most of them stay put in cities and most of the ones who do venure out can be left behind by walking just a little ways into the desert. I live in central Tucson but I can be in the wilderness in 20 minutes. I know some small wilderness places I can get to in 10 minutes. One is surrounded by a vast and very diverse number of wild areas here.

Take a country like England and the wilds are there but not to the degree that they are here. I have a friend there who has found a small copse of woods in a major urban area but it is thick enough that he was able to go in and camp overnight just to get into the wild. Sure the Northern territories of Canada, Alaska and the vast frozen areas are wilderness. They have been logged but they are still wild and remote. So it is for quite a bit of North America. Sometimes it's just in your head. You have to look for it and see it. It can be 50 feet off of a major road. I have a friend in Austria and about half of that country is heavy forest. Wild places are everywhere. We do have some old growth forest in Arizona. It is magical. There are places that are not logged like in steep canyons around water courses. Logging may have gone on all around them but they are there.

On a sad note I have seen thousands of trees in Arizona that have died this year from a beetle exacerbated by the drought. It is a natural world and there have been many, many mass extinctions through the epocs. Hang on to the ride for as long as you can. Another asteroid will hit dead center some bright sunny day. It is just a matter of time.

ellehcim · Post by **ellehcim** » Dec 07 2002 6:42 pm

Too True!! I was out hiking the national trail last week and within 1/2 hour was in a valley between two ridges. I saw my first group of havelinas in the wild and it was so quiet and peaceful.

I hiked for almost 4 hours and never saw anyone else on the trails. Even on the squaw peak circumferance trail you can have the quiet of nature in the middle of phoenix.

ck_1 · Post by **ck_1** » Dec 07 2002 6:48 pm

I was thinking the same thing on Doe Mountain this afternoon...that it only took about 20 minutes to leave the world behind...it was wonderfully still

(inbetween small plane flyovers)

...the huge raven-like birds were swooping around on the thermals

(inbetween helicopter fly overs)

...and the terrain was more varied than I would have imagined

...(except for the cigarette butts)

...

I like this website...every once in a while there's a topic that gets everybody all fired up.

Abe · Post by **Abe** » Dec 08 2002 9:01 am

Cindy Coons wrote: Thus leading to my New Years Resolution to keep my mouth shut. With 4 weeks left I am beginning to wean myself. :roll:

I only kept one New Years Resolution in my life. New Years of '80 while serving on Adak, Alaska. It was, "Never to make another New Years Resolution again".

Thanks for sharing the article tracker; another awesome thread! My first thought is to stay as far away as possible from it. :rollH:
For the moment.