geographic extent of the Mogollon Rim

[blisterfree]

Here's a question that has flummoxed me for some time. Does it have an answer? Where does the Mogollon Rim "begin" and "end"? Surely it runs at least to the Sedona area on the west, and to the White Mountains on the east. But just as "The Rim" is defined in more of a conceptual way in between these two areas wherever it happens to be less prominent, so too one would assume it continues perhaps farther west and east before finally and permanently dissolving into neighboring geographic "provinces" and the like. It seems the Mogollon Rim is characterized by its overall linear elevational prominence above the neighboring Transition Zone to the south, as well as forming a portion of the boundary of the Colorado Plateau region. So it is both these things, and never just the latter. Is it continuous within its overall areal extent, or is it fair game to call it a broken feature, appearing wherever the right criteria are met? Again, where does it ultimately end for good, west and east? Can anyone really say?

[big_load]

large doses of repetitive ravine contouring wears on the psyche

Can you say Tonto Trail?

The Tonto has plenty of good views. Parts of the Highline seem like the closest thing AZ has to the green tunnels of the Appalachian Trail. I like to see out more. But my characterization is a gross generalization that I will contradict the minute I forget that I'm trying to be consistent. I refuse to not have fun just because I'm doing something I claimed not to enjoy.

[mazatzal]

@big_load
Not to contradict you but to reuse your text:
"The Highline has plenty of good views."

However, I would not route a Mogollon Rim Trail along the Highline. It would not make sense.

[JasonCleghorn]

@blisterfree
I am torn between commenting on the attractiveness of the woman in video or pushing her annoying off the Mogollon Rim

Over/under on # of hikes she's ever done at 10. Whatcha got?

[blisterfree]

@mazatzal

However, I would not route a Mogollon Rim Trail along the Highline. It would not make sense.

Can't take the concept that literally, methinks, or it quickly becomes unfeasible. We are dabbling by default over big chunks of the real estate.

[chumley]

Over/under on # of hikes she's ever done at 10. Whatcha got?

Depends if you consider what she did in the video as a "hike" or not. I'd put that in Scottsdale Greenbelt category. Of course there are a handful of HAZers who have claimed that as a hike (or at least "walk/tour") so who knows!? To each their own, I guess!

[mazatzal]

Can't take the concept that literally

I wasn't referring to the name "Rim" specifically. The equivalent rim choices parallel to the Highline make good sense for this stretch.

[blisterfree]

@mazatzal

I wasn't referring to the name "Rim" specifically. The equivalent rim choices parallel to the Highline make good sense for this stretch.

The Highline seems to be better watered, more scenic (less forest), more remote (away from vehicles more often) than the rim environment in that area, at the expense of rougher trail conditions, many more ups and downs, etc. Obviously everyone has their individual criteria for what makes a hike appealing. I would probably shoot for the variety offered by the Highline experience, given the rarity of being able to traverse down below like that for an extended period, vs tons and tons of above-the-rim walking especially east of the Highline that are essentially mandatory. Anyway, just to offer a sense of how I tend to come at these things, trying for the elusive middle path.

[big_load]

Not to contradict you but to reuse your text:
"The Highline has plenty of good views."

It has good views at fairly regular intervals, but so does the AT. For me, it lacks the continuous awesomeness of my favorite AZ trails.

[chumley]

I see there's a recently posted route for this conceptual trail.

Interesting.

I'm not sure about the location of the western terminus at Parsons (not that I have an alternate suggestion...), and the stretch on the north side of West Clear Creek might be challenging.

Looks like a fun project to piece together.

Will there need to be any trail-building for the currently marked xc sections or will hikers just need to connect the dots?

[nonot]

Cool concept, looks like there are too few water sources on some stretches. Also a few private land issues, I think. But some parts are very interesting. Hope it gains some momentum. Seems like only a few connector pieces would need to be negotiated, and perhaps some small reroutes to get more water options.

[blisterfree]

Thanks for the feedback, guys.

Yep, the MRT is just conceptual at this point. No trailbuilding anticipated or desired really.

Parsons start seemed convenient and scenic, maybe easier to reach than points farther west via Williams in a high snow spring (thinking from a thru-hiker standpoint).

I've hiked most of the stretch between Parsons and Pine, plus the AZ Trail half of Highline. The x-c stuff wasn't a big deal, plus trying to avoid wet canyoneering in the case of WCC while still providing some rewards.

Water could be an issue in Sycamore Canyon Wilderness and around Sedona, though the latter wouldn't be a big deal given proximity to roads and traffic. Overall, thinking ample tanks and spring runoff (Sitgreaves NF etc) in years conducive to a long hike and fire danger sufficiently low. Ditto following good monsoon season.

Caltopo land ownership layer helped to keep the route above-bar, as far as I can tell. Any issues around Showlow or Lakeside that come to mind?

All suggestions for improvement welcome!

[te_wa]

the mogollon rim starts and ends "in Payson".

i know you've all heard it.. "yeah, me and bubba went camping at Knoll lake up in Payson"

"i hiked see canyon in Payson last week"

yeah, it bugs me, too.

[nonot]

My comment about land ownership generally applied towards that section north of West Clear Creek, where I am under the impression that portions are owned to the rim by some ranchers. Most of the area in Showlow I think you can generally patch together hiking routes on public land, though it may involve roads in some areas. There are some parts I have never visited though.

It seems to me like water would be scarce in the area near Greens Peak and to the west. Maybe there are some creeks not on the map? It seems like more enjoyable trails might be to go through tribal lands, but perhaps that is a logistics issue you don't want to deal with.

Also the Sycamore canyon area and the Sedona parts leading to it that you have mentioned was the other main water concern. Seems like you are suggesting that be dealt with by stashes, which is an option You might get more options by staying on top of the rim and using roads to come down on the trails further east, which offers some cattle tank options that are not all that great, unless you route it further north and take advantage of a complete route through West Fork of Oak Creek