HikeArizona.COM

A recent NPR article addresses this issue, and was raised following an opinion column written by NAU senior lecturer Robyn Martin. (possibly a pseudonym for BobP ?)

https://www.hcn.org/articles/a-call-for ... ones-alone
http://www.npr.org/2015/08/05/429597208 ... -southwest

Money Quote

"Yes, I have knocked a few down, sure," she says, adding that she considers the cairns "pointless reminders of human ego."

Interesting to note that this topic is more widespread than just here on HAZ.
(Previously discussed in a HAZ Forum Thread on LNT Ethics.)

joebartels wrote: ↑Oct 17 2022 1:09 pm

Stacking stones ‘not allowed’ in Texas: This is why rock cairns are prohibited at Lone Star State parks, authorities say

https://www.click2houston.com/news/loca ... ities-say/

I just assume there's a bark scorpion under every rock.

Something I never thought I'd say: Can every other state do the same thing as Texas?

When I used to hike/backpack thru the Supes if I followed the cairns from one to the next I would be adding twice the length of the trail.
I would also know that BobP had not hiked this route before me!

Yosemite rangers give the green light for hikers to knock down cairn
https://www.sfgate.com/california-parks ... 201467.php

@AZClaimjumper I've seen this facebook post referenced dozens of times in various news articles. Not a single one of them cites an actual living person, and certainly not a "ranger". While it is true that the "official" facebook page for Yosemite made a post saying that wilderness restoration rangers knocked over a cairn and that you should too, that is simply not the official position of the National Park Service, which can be found here: https://www.nps.gov/articles/rockcairns.htm

There are some strong opinions on this subject, which is why it makes such a compelling (clickable) "news" story online. It's a sad reality of our current time that few -- if any -- news articles written about this post seek the follow-up, clarification, confirmation, or any comment at all, from an actual, living, citable, human being in a position of authority over park policies.

Excerpt from the policy published on the official NPS website

Each park has a different way it maintains trails and cairns; however, they all have the same rule: If you come across a cairn, do not disturb it. Don’t knock it down or add to it.

Follow the guidelines from the Leave No Trace Center for Outdoor Ethics to ensure future hikers can navigate the trail and prevent damage to the landscape:

Do not tamper with cairns – If an intentional cairn is tampered with or an unauthorized one is built, then future visitors may become disoriented or even lost.
Do not build unauthorized cairns – Moving rocks disturbs the soil and makes the area more prone to erosion. Disturbing rocks also disturbs fragile vegetation and micro ecosystems.
Do not add to existing cairns – Authorized cairns are carefully designed. Adding to the pile can actually cause them to collapse.

Are there any legally enforceable guidelines regarding this policy? Not that I know of. But wouldn't it be nice if a journalist actually asked that question of an individual in a position to know -- or at a minimum ask why the published NPS policy differs from what the social media manager in one park posted?

chumley wrote:But wouldn't it be nice if a journalist actually asked that question of an individual in a position to know

Can they ask about the yellow triangles too? [ Unknown VV Triangle Marker ]

The_Eagle wrote:Can they ask about the yellow triangles too?

Sadly I don't think that there's the kind of emotional opinion behind the triangles to get the kind of clicks that sells advertising.

I think the issue is the failure to make a distinction between legitimate navigational cairns and purely "decorative" rock stacks ... obviously the former shouldn't be disturbed, but the latter is only good for kicking down. People who can't tell the difference should leave them alone - and maybe shouldn't even be out there,

@cactuscat
The 19 year old El Malpais NM social media person got into a little argument with the 22 year old Yosemite social media person to help educate that some cairns have historic value too!

Many of the cairns at El Malpais predate the National Park Service and mark ancient trails used by the ancestors of the Pueblo and Navajo people to cross through the lava landscape of the malpais. Some cairns you encounter that seem "out of place" may actually have historical or cultural significance.

fbpost here

@chumley
I have recently been to the lava beds in El Malpais, those areas can be difficult to navigate without cairns or signage.

My opinion is that its the least intrusive form of marking a trail its made from the same rocks that we are walking on ,over or past. I was shocked to see the signs in Death Valley NP that were put up on some of the trails to prohibit them. it was way more intrusive than the cairns them selves. they are not permanent, we used to have fun putting up tiny cairns only an inch or two high.Is a wooden post with a sign on it less sightly????? has a cairn ever saved someones life (I'm not sure of the answer on that one but I would bet its saved a few

Johnnie wrote:has a cairn ever saved someones life (I'm not sure of the answer on that one but I would bet its saved a few

While it is possible a cairn or series of cairns may have been instrumental in saving someone, I would posit that could only be true of CORRECTLY place cairns.

That said, one could argue the opposite as well... who knows if one or more of the hundreds of missing/lost hikers every year may have been led astray by incorrectly placed cairns, whether done as fun, as a joke, unknowing of the correct route, or some more nefarious purpose.

In my experience I believe I've hiked far more trails with too many cairns rather than not enough.

Let me just say this, "more than a few times when I was hiking I have got a little nervous as to whether or not I was still on the trail in a remote area, and more than a few times I gave a silent "sigh" of relief when a Cairn appeared and got us to our destination when we I were contemplating turning around and going back the way we came with out getting to our destination . keep them they are already on our trail they are just being rearranged. Imagine that Cairn saving someones life if they are lost.very very small price to pay

In a remote area, sure. Near a parking lot or any well-traveled trail, no.