Hiking vehicles

[rally_toad]

What kind of vehicles do you guys all drive when your going hiking? Im thinking about investing in a 4wd high clearance Jeep or something of the sort so I could get to some places where I definitely couldnt get to with what Im driving now (73 mustang):) I saw a Jeep Grand Cherokee today for $2600 and I was thinking about checking it out. What "hiking vehicle" is easiest to drive and which gets the best gas mileage (even though I know most wouldnt be too fuel efficient.)

[Jeffshadows]

There are tools applicable to the problem besides just the gas pedal and the steering wheel.

..and one of these is a good quality ~30ft "tow strap! I highly recommend that everyone who plans to take their vehicle offroad have one of these in the vehicle at all times with an anchor point front and/or back (not the front and back bumper or axle).

x2...even if you're not sure how to use it. Someone will...

[mikedsmith]

Taken another look at the Xterra spec = ground clearance 8.3 inches. Is that good enough? I rented a Pathfinder last trip = 8.8 inches. Neither look very good on gas. SUVs previously rented are a 4Runner - good but very pricey, and a Trailbalzer - did not like the ride. I'm planning on the winter season (retired = yippee!).

[azbackpackr]

I have a '78 Blazer with a new engine. It might be for sale, too, if anyone is interested. Yes, it will go just about anywhere. Needs brake job and new carburetor at the moment, though. Looks like it's been to hell and back--it ain't pretty.

Ok, way back in the dim past I do recall that trailhead break-ins started occurring. They continue to this day in some areas. Backpackers used to say you should have an old beater that would make it to the trailhead, something to not really worry about, in case vandals and thieves showed up while you were there.

[PaleoRob]

Taken another look at the Xterra spec = ground clearance 8.3 inches. Is that good enough? I rented a Pathfinder last trip = 8.8 inches.

Not to toss some gas back into the fire, but the '08 Outback also claims 8.3" of ground clearance. I like the interior size and ride of the Xterra a lot, but that's a lot of gas to burn, with only 20mpg with the manual tranny.

[Jeffshadows]

Taken another look at the Xterra spec = ground clearance 8.3 inches. Is that good enough? I rented a Pathfinder last trip = 8.8 inches.

Not to toss some gas back into the fire, but the '08 Outback also claims 8.3" of ground clearance. I like the interior size and ride of the Xterra a lot, but that's a lot of gas to burn, with only 20mpg with the manual tranny.

Nothing beats actually going and looking at the under carriage and seeing what's attached\hanging where that might snag up or break on rocks, etc.

[Grasshopper]

Nothing beats actually going and looking at the under carriage and seeing what's attached\hanging where that might snag up or break on rocks, etc.

Agreed.. and as a serious rock crawler 4x4er in a previous life, in my opinion the Nissan-Xterra I described above is the best "off the lot" solution..price-wise and otherwise. There are always trade-offs.. gas mileage is one of them!
(I have some friends from Canada that own a place in the same townhouse complex as mine, and they wanted to buy a 4x4 so when they come down here to visit in fall/winter that they can get to all the AZ trailheads and on most all AZ forest roads.. I spent a dedicated month in '07 looking with the wife-the decision maker, and they are now well set-up with a new '07 Xterra 4x4 that they can now use both in AZ and Canada..)

[te_wa]

whatever you buy, ditch the stock shocks before you do anything else, replace them with Bilstein no Rancho, no Tokiko, definatley no Monroe. Bilstein.

or, you can come buy my Montero Sport XLS (loaded) with 50K and Bilsteins come with it!
32" tires w/ 5k mi. on them
all power
1200w true power audio (CDT, JL, Diamond)
DVD Pioneer
50K miles
all maintenance
$11000 its yours

AZ pinstripes are free ;)

[Jeffshadows]

whatever you buy, ditch the stock shocks before you do anything else, replace them with Bilstein no Rancho, no Tokiko, definatley no Monroe. Bilstein.

x2

[PaleoRob]

Nothing beats actually going and looking at the under carriage and seeing what's attached\hanging where that might snag up or break on rocks, etc.

I agree entirely. I just thought I'd throw that bit of information out there, that's all.

[Jeffshadows]

Nothing beats actually going and looking at the under carriage and seeing what's attached\hanging where that might snag up or break on rocks, etc.

I agree entirely. I just thought I'd throw that bit of information out there, that's all.

The more, the better

[outdoor_lover]

Ok, since I'm not even close to an expert on 4x4's and off roading, here's the question. I see "High Clearance Vehicle" necessary, even if it's not a 4x4. So what is the definition of "High Clearance"????

Until last April, I had an 05 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited 4x4, stock. I now have a 2011 Ford Escape Front Wheel Drive. There is 2" difference in the "Running Ground Clearance" between the two. The Cherokee was 8.6 and the Escape is 8.4. Was even the Cherokee considered High Clearance according to most of your definitions??? Or does it take more added lift than that?

Maybe I'm way off base, but if I put slightly bigger tires on the Escape, it actually gives it a little more clearance, am I right??? I would really like to be able to use this vehicle to access a few TH's but need to know that if I invest a few more bucks in it, ie. different tires, skid plates, etc. that it will work....

All your input would be greatly appreciated. I really miss the Cherokee sometimes, but I just filled up at Quiktrip today and saw that once again Premium was at 4.00 a gallon and at 16 MPG at the most, in the city, I don't miss it that much. Not to mention the cost of maintenance on that car was ridiculous....

[PaleoRob]

High clearance non 4x4 to me is like a 2WD truck or SUV, something that isn't a coupe or sedan.

[CannondaleKid]

There is 2" difference in the "Running Ground Clearance" between the two. The Cherokee was 8.6 and the Escape is 8.4.

Did you mean to say 2/10's of an inch? If my math is correct 8.6 - 8.4 = .2

But no matter, there's quite a bit more to it than 'running ground clearance'. Let's start with the basics:

Ground Clearance / Ride Height – The measurement from the ground to the lowest point on the underside of the vehicle. This amount would represent the clearance the vehicle has without scraping the underside of the vehicle. In most cases the axle housing or part of the exhaust system will be the lowest part.
So with your Escape on a flat surface road, the lowest part of the vehicle will contact any obstacle over 8.4". However, if you take a look under your car, take note of just what is the lowest part and where it is. If you remember that just make sure to drive to one side or the other to avoid making contact.

Angle of Approach - The angle measured by drawing a straight line from the front of the front tire to the bottom of the front bumper. It represents the angle of inclination that a vehicle can tackle while climbing a slope without hitting or scraping the front bumper.
On my Samurai the front spring shackles stick out just past that imaginary line so they are the limiting factor.

Angle of Departure - The angle measured by drawing a straight line from the back of the rear tire to the bottom of the rear bumper. It represents the angle of declination that a vehicle can tackle while descending a slope without scraping the rear bumper.
This is much more of a critical issue for my Pathfinder than my Samurai because the long rear overhang of the Pathfinder. If there is a deep dip, the receiver hitch will drag... too much so and the rear wheels would lose traction.

Ramp Over Angle - This is a measure of a vehicle's ability to drive over a sharp ridge or ramp without touching its underside. The "included" angle measures the angle inside the ramp; the "exluded" angle measures the combined angles outside the ramp to the horizontal. The larger the angle the steeper peak the vehicle can travel over. Violating this angle leads to the most likely cause of costly damage to your vehicle.A short-wheelbase vehicle with a high ground clearance and large tires will have the best (highest) ramp over angle.
Although my Pathfinder has the tallest tires that will fit in the wheel-wells and a higher ground clearance, the long wheelbase reduces the ramp over angle. On the other hand, my Samurai has such a short wheelbase that it has a much greater angle. However, with the aluminum transfer case being in the center of the vehicle (the tip of the angle) if I hit anything it's very likely to cost $$. Due to that the next item on my list is a transfer case skid plate... coming soon.

So... back to the original question about high clearance. When I describe a road (or pack trail as many of my adventures seem to be on) and I mention 4WD and high clearance, I consider them as two completely separate entities:

Four Wheel Drive:
The road has steep hills and/or with loose/wet/slick/muddy terrain and/or with deep ruts that may cause a wheel to be off the ground. In these case 4 wheels working together is critical. While front wheel drive may work great in snow, when you're climbing a steep hill on loose or slick terrain most of the weight is on the back so the front end will be light and traction will be limited.

High Clearance:
1. The road has many obstacles that will require more static clearance.
2. The road has steep dips and/or peaks which will test all the angles, approach, ramp over and departure.

What is the quickest way to gain clearance? Yep, taller tires.
But again there are things to consider:
Tire clearance in the wheel-well under all conditions, full spring compression as well as when front wheels are turned.
Tire diameter change will change your speedometer reading... taller tire will rotate slower so you will be going faster than it reads. And due to that fact, the computer will not be getting accurate readings which could affect shift points if you have an automatic transmission.
Tire diameter also affects the effective gear ratio of the vehicle... a taller tire will reduce your available torque, and even with the calculation corrected you will not get quite the same fuel economy... and I don't mean making it better.

Oops, there's one other thing I may mention a road may require... a very capable 4x4
This usually means the terrain is very steep and traction can be very tentative, requiring a differential locker which effectively locks both wheels on one axle together. I'm not going into it any deeper at this point, but suffice to say with your Escape, if you get one front wheel in the air, at that moment you have ZERO-wheel drive. There are many 4WD vehicles out there that will yield the same 0WD with one wheel off the ground.

Oh yeah, one last and most important thing... The most capable vehicle in the world is no good without a capable and confident driver. And how does one become capable and confident?
1. Practice, practice, practice, and more practice!
2. Throw in a dose of tips from off-road veterans
3. Imitate others... as in following someone with more experience than you and watching the lines they take. In the just under a year since I got my Samurai I've used 1, 2, 3, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1 and continue with more practice taking on bigger obstacles every day.
Yesterday I finally tried to drive up and over an obstacle I had never tried before, basically a 4 foot wall.... Two attempts and I realized without a spotter it just wasn't going to happen... unless and until I get the last two items on my list for the Samurai... the transfer case skid-plate and front locker. Soon... if the gas prices don't break me

[AndreyP]

According to National Park Service, high clearance vehicle has "at least 8 inches of clearance or more, from the lowest point of the frame, body,
suspension, or differential, to the ground". Vehicles having clearance less than 8" are considered low clearance.

[outdoor_lover]

@CannondaleKid
Thanks so much for that info Mark! That had to have taken awhile....

Ground Clearance / Ride Height

Don't know where my math skills went. I find it funny though that the 4x4 version of the same vehicle only has 8.1" of Ground Clearance. Must be the additional stuff underneath I guess. I know I have that plastic piece (the name escapes me at the moment) that is located on the front, underneath the front bumper, but at least on my Cherokee, that piece snaps on and off. I think it will on the Escape too.
Will have to look underneath for low point. One thing I insisted on when I was shopping was a full size spare underneath. (I hated the tailgate mount on the RAV4. And doughnuts are for breakfast....
I have the "tow package" so the receiver is there, but no hitch on it right now. ( Need to get that along with a tow strap).

Angle of Approach

19.4 degrees

Angle of Departure

28.3 degrees

Ramp Over Angle

19.0 degrees

Front tire track width 60.7
Rear tire track width 60.2
Length 174.7
Width 71.1
Wheelbase 103.1
Lift over Height 29.6
Overhang Front 33.7 Rear 37.8
Independent Front and Rear Suspension

What is the quickest way to gain clearance? Yep, taller tires.

I pretty much knew about your answers here. The Escape has an option for 17" Wheels, so I'm pretty sure I can get away with slightly bigger tires if I want to sacrifice some things. Also need to pick up a Hi lift Jack....

Right now, it's got Michelin Latitude Touring Radial Tires P235/70R16 I believe the load rating is E2
MacPherson Struts, Stabilizer Bar and Coil Springs. Suspension front and rear is Independent Double Lateral & Semi Trailing Arm.

It does have Traction Assist - Advance Trac w/RSC

I did some pretty careful shopping and looked at alot of models before settling on this one. MPG and Cargo Room were two big factors as I was hauling multiple dogs, crates, canopy, etc. to dog trials sometimes for entire weekends. I made an excellent decision I think. We'll see how things go over the long term....Getting another 4x4 just wasn't going to be in the cards this time.

Ok guys, pretend I have money and tell me what to change to make this more offroad friendly until I can afford to get another 4x4.....I already know the tires will have to be different, if not bigger, just tougher...Maybe Goodyear Wranglers?

Nothing better than not only having to equip me, but also the vehicle.....

[chumley]

So the specs/details here are very interesting. Unfortunately, the description and triplog writers typically don't use any of that to determine which selection they choose.

High-clearance typically means a truck or SUV. 4x4 is pretty straight-forward. Some of the newer hybrid vehicles can complicate things. Is a Toyota Highlander high-clearance? It depends how bad the road is or how well you drive.

Keep in mind that I know a lot of roads that are listed as high-clearance that I could access with a sedan. Different people have different levels of comfort of what they put their vehicle through. There's also a component involving driver experience. I've seen people bottom out their SUV while another driver in a Honda Civic made it through the same terrain unscathed. Scraping the undercarriage of your sedan isn't necessarily a bad thing if you know what's under there, where you decide to scrape, and what speed you do it at!

Subsequently, I would take the ratings simply as a guide and compare it to your level of experience and comfort driving dirt roads.

[kevinweitzel75]

I have found out from experience, good tires and good offroad driving skills are pretty much all you need to get almost anywhere you need to get to. With the exception, of course, there are just some places you cant get to without 4x4 or a high clearance. I think you shouldn't have to much of a problem getting to Rogers with a set of good tires. Me personally, I like BFG All Terrains. A little pricey, but will last 50,000 miles or so. Depending on how well you take care of them and how much offroading you do in them.

[te_wa]

high clearance vehicle has "at least 8 inches of clearance or more, from the lowest point of the frame, body,
suspension, or differential, to the ground"

what about kids dangling out of the windows?

[PatrickL]

This thread just reminds me that I need a truck. If only my low-clearance, FWD Caravan wasn't such a comfortable and foolproof car-camping option.

[AZLumberjack]

My demands for camping have kinda fallen off in recent years so I now go only beyond the gates of our Senior's Park and set up a couple of lawn chairs. Hoping to get a FWD "Scooter" next year and really rough it