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not sure if this is affecting Humphries access but protesters are up there this morning keepin' things interesting halting construction.

http://bsnorrell.blogspot.com/2011/06/l ... wbowl.html

Tough_Boots wrote: Decided by who? The peaks have been sacred ground for much longer than they've been U.S. public lands.

Yes, and for some tribes the Peaks have been sacred for longer than other tribes. What if this wasn't a Flagstaff vs. Environmentalist/Native issue? Decided by who indeed? What if the Navajos were trying to stop the Hualapais from building a shrine at the top? Who's claim is more legitimate? What if the Hopis moved to ban the Navajos from The Peaks because they were not allowed up there in traditional stories? This becomes the tiger chasing the tail.
We may not like the outcomes of the past, but we have to deal with those outcomes as the reality of the present - no matter how much we dislike what happened before. The San Francisco Peaks are under the jurisdiction of the United States Forest Service now, and as such are public land. Pretending that they are anything but now is a fantasy and does not help solve the issue in the long run.

The only thing that will solve this issue is acceptance and moving on.

Jim_H wrote:The only thing that will solve this issue is acceptance and moving on.

Its a sad day when "calming the herd" and "solution" are synonymous.

Tough_Boots wrote:Its a sad day when "calming the herd" and "solution" are synonymous

Oh the condescension...

I forget you guys hike together.

I am assuming we still will. I don't argue politics on the trail.

You usually hike so much faster than me now it makes arguing about anything impossible.

I think it's pointless to argue politics anywhere, anytime. Nothing I say will change your views. Ever heard anyone say, "Gosh, I think you're right. I should become a republican/democrat/whatever." ??

paulhubbard wrote:I think it's pointless to argue politics anywhere, anytime.

I dunno. I don't think I agree. I've made some major headway with my mother over the past couple years.

Arguments work! Look at the success the republicans have had with Obama. Gitmo, patriot act, Bush-doctrine-inspired war in Libya, extending tax cuts for the rich, etc. :STP:

I should have clarified... Arguing politics amongst friends or family is pointless (except for T_B's mom apparently?)

Tough_Boots wrote:

paulhubbard wrote:I think it's pointless to argue politics anywhere, anytime.

I dunno. I don't think I agree. I've made some major headway with my mother over the past couple years.

I have also, but then again she's been dead for 15 years.... ;)

I've had discussions where the person stops for a minute and you can almost see the gears spinning in their head. That's the best I ever expect, because then I know I've "planted the seed". You never get that sudden "oh, ok you're right" moment in an argument, but if you can get them to stop and think for a minute, mission accomplished.

Ever get that moment where the person stops, their eyes glaze over, and they let out a sign that seems to say, "how did I ever get involved in this sh**"?

Not to open the debate up again, but the thread seemed the best to use, instead of making a new one.

The Snowbowl website says they expect to be open by the 25th, by natural snow or if they make it. In other words, they will be making snow this winter. Given that, has anyone been up there to see if their snow making equipment is in place and ready to go? I watched them build the pipeline up the main access road in the summer of 2011, and I know they were doing construction at the resort this summer, but I did not know the water line was already installed up US 180. I guess it had been there for as long as I lived in Flagstaff, so before 2006, as I never recall seeing a pipeline being installed from town to the resort's new pipe put in last year.

Anyway, anyone been to Snowbowl and seen any of this?

I saw a news article a few months ago (I can't remember where) that made me think they would be making snow this year. The emphasis was on the objections, rather than the equipment readiness.

I thought about this yesterday when Mrs. big_load and I were talking about snowmaking at our local ski area. They pump over a billion gallons of groundwater a year and there are signs that area aquifers are being overtaxed, although not in that immediate area. I don't know how much of that snow gets back underground, but I doubt very much. It's a short path to the Delaware and then the ocean.

I read a few AZ Daily Sun articles about it, but have not seen any updates. So, I was wondering how progress, towards the goal of making snow to open the resort by December 25th, was going. Frankly, when I read the articles a month or so ago, I was surprised, as I really thought they had to built the pipeline from town to Snowbowl road, never knowing that it had been buried well before I ever even got to Flagstaff in July/ August of 2006. I was still under the impression that next winter was probably going to be their earliest winter to make artificial snow. I know Chumley Loves Snowbowl, maybe he'll be skiing in a few weeks and let us know if it is artificial or the genuine article.

Jim_H wrote: I know Chumley Loves Snowbowl, maybe he'll be skiing in a few weeks and let us know if it is artificial or the genuine article.

Yeah, let's ask him to taste it for us. Then if he tells us it tastes like schitt, we'll know.

Hahaha, got past the pumpkin (til Joe fixes it, of course!)

I wouldn't say that I love Snowbowl as much as I love skiing, and it's the best close option for me right now. But I will gladly do a face plant/yard sale and let you know what I find.